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I've played simple pop rock, played covers,functions, some jazz & fusion played techy metal stuff.
Some of it has been paid, some of it hasn't.
I'm now learning drums and on a tear to get to a professional level of playing as efficiently as possible.
I'm going to do it by studying the instrument and learning from those that have come before me.
I've played with all levels of ability and I can work with anyone except people who have a chip on their shoulder about being untrained.
Well, I can work with them too- and have, plenty of times- there is just a lot of eye rolling amongst the other muso's is all.
The specific problem I am illustrating is the one you are proving for me.
So you don't understand a ii V I, big deal- as long as you can play enough to do the gig then I'm fine.
What irritates is when the untrained musician exhibits reverse snobbery as you above above ^^^.
When I say less fulfilling I am talking about when you have to negotiate a band where the untrained musician has a chip on their shoulder that they are less knowledgable than other folks in the band.
They use the 'I'm playing from the heart, man' argument- as though knowing something about the thing you are doing is somehow a disadvantage. It is silly and it is exhibited because the fragile ego of the lazy musician is threatened.
These are the lazy ignoramuses I'm talking about.
Studio: https://www.voltperoctave.com
Music: https://www.euclideancircuits.com
Me: https://www.jamesrichmond.com
What pisses me off, though, is people who say things like "I don't want to learn theory, I think it's restricting" or "I just want to play what I'm feeling, maaaaan". There are people who look down their noses at theory, as if it were something you should ever be dismissive of. I find my knowledge of theory (what there is of it) liberating and I know it has made me a better player and musician. I am more easily able to communicate what I mean to other musicians, and therefore to achieve more, with better results, in a shorter space of time. It's not elitism - not everyone cares about it, and that's fine. But if you don't care about it, don't actively dismiss it because guess what - it makes you sound like a lazy ignoramus.
A chip on their shoulder? Eye rolling? Fragile ego of the untrained musician? Who is the snob, here?
I'm snobbish in any direction. I detest snobbery (especially musical snobbery and competetive types within bands) - that has been my exact point from moment one in this discussion. There should be *NO* snobbery in music. That is the point.
I detest music fascists who believe that the *only way* to play music is to be a theorist... and what I'm saying is, its not the only way. It may be the only way *you personally* can relate to another muso - that's different and that's absolutely fine, and I wish you all the happiness in the world with that. What I am saying is you can be a great musician and not be able to read music/interpret theory.
If you know anything about Psychology there are different character traits in people - some are theorists who need to understand the theory behind something to be able to make something work. But not all are. Perhaps what we are proving here, categorically, is that theorists should avoid non-theorists in bands... as they won't see each other's point of view.
Live and let live. No right. No wrong. Just music. End of... :-)
I think I'll leave it here, as its going around in circles.
Studio: https://www.voltperoctave.com
Music: https://www.euclideancircuits.com
Me: https://www.jamesrichmond.com
Studio: https://www.voltperoctave.com
Music: https://www.euclideancircuits.com
Me: https://www.jamesrichmond.com
No contradiction. Its not snobbery to detest fascism - and some musos can be really fascistic about it (ie their way is the only way).
OK - so you feel that learning theory has helped you as a musician. Fantastic - good for you. I don't believe that the reverse is true for me - I don't believe it would have been restricting, I just haven't ever bothered. I don't care about not knowing the correct terminology for a particular grouping of notes or chords, but I don't think I'm a lazy ignoramus. It has nothing to do with being a reverse snob, its just the way that I've chosen. I don't make a song or dance about it normally - and wish I'd never mentioned it - I just play by ear.
You described me as self-righteous... no, I'd disagree. What works for you may not work for someone else. To criticise another's choice is unkind, and can only based on your own path and life choices - you aren't seeing the other person's opinion or chosing to ignore or, worse still, belittle it. Therefore, isn't that a little self-righteous? I'm sure if the two of us ever sat down over a pint, we'd get on great and we'd find a common ground - but the medium of the printed word probably shows both of us in a bad light.
Like I say, no right, no wrong. Just music.
Peace, love and sausage rolls.
:-)
And anyway, it IS inverse snobbery - you're looking down your nose at a differing approach to playing music, simply because it requires an amount of extra work and knowledge that you consider unnecessary.
My YouTube Channel
Sound is the most important thing. I remember Slash saying in an early interview that running up and down scales was like learning Ba Ba Black Sheep - instead he used the scales to play the sound in his head and to a large extent I agree with this.
My YouTube Channel
--> I'm learning "Rising Force" album right now and it's like the speed of light. No way in hell is anybody remembering every note as they play them, it's too much for the brain to process. Instead they know the root scale/key and work off shapes. You can break stuff down into notes for analysis or if playing slower stuff.
My YouTube Channel
My YouTube Channel