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Limited edition CS P bass?
Yum.
But I do know that the Custom Shop Fenders I've owned and played have been consistently better than any other Fenders I've owned - from Squiers to MIJs to MIMs to American Standards to AVRIs. I'm happy to pay the extra money when I can afford it.
I've played one Standard USA (from recent years) when I've thought "wow" this is something else. However, I think this very often when I play a CS.
I consider myself very lucky to have owned some cracking vintage originals. Similarly, I consider myself lucky that I have a pre-CBS P which is everything I could have wanted from it. It's a one owner, I know the history, and I paid a big whack getting it from a dealer I trust.
Note the key word tho - lucky. I'm lucky that the big chunk of change I laid out on the P has worked out.
If I went to a shop and bought a corker of a CS P which was 99 ish % of the way there, with a few minor differences, then I wouldn't consider myself lucky. There's no risk in that. Fender are producing CS guitars and basses for buyers who want most of the vintage feel and vibe with none of the risk. And they succeed in that. More than Gibson do. Much more than Gibson do.
Would I gig my 64P? No, probably not. I've insured it in case I do - which has cost an arm and a leg to do so. But the main problem is that it's pretty irreplaceable - I may find another one, but to find one as good I'd be lucky.
Would I gig a CS 64 P reissue? Yes, absolutely. If I'm lucky enough to build up my gear fund to consider getting a CS 64 P purely to gig with, then that's exactly what I will do.
many times I've had customers come over to try say 3-4 or 5 C/Shop Strats and may get it down to a short list of 2, based on some mojo they prefer - Then argue/debate amongst themselves for 30 mins, trying these two examples, deciding which they will buy - They may well have subtle variations regarding tonal character but both are good examples
I've even known customers come over to buy say a 62 in white, but end up with a 62 in s/burst as for some reason the s/burst talks back to them in a way they prefer - Good to be open minded and let your hands and ears be the judge
The guy who was helping me out there had a play on my 64 for a bit. His comment was very interesting, and totally unprompted - "Wow, this is the best P I've played in years. It's just very slightly better than the Custom Shop P I had a little while back and stupidly sold. Man, I miss that bass.. Should never have sold it"
And there you have the reason Fender make CS guitars & basses..
Now despite my very limited experience of vintage guitars, I suspect there were plenty of terrible ones. I think the whole vintage patina thing is its own aesthetic. Im not into relics, but Id sooner gig a CS Strat than some of the mi 70's ones Ive played. That to me is the joke. How a 76 Strat is four figures, when you could pick one up for £250 in 1987. That just amazes me.
I just think the golden age of guitar building is now. The next big change will be environmental impacts on wood supply. But then who can predict the future?
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Fender made 5500 guitars approximately between 1950-54, that's less than the Custom Shop produces today.
They are produced mostly by the same methods and the fairy dust relic finishing is a marketing approach that clearly works.
Combinate that with the perceived heritage of the brand and you have a product that sells.
That is great- but I see through the marketing spin and look at the product.
They make a fine product- no doubt about that.
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We both know that playing a selection of C/Shop models and you will find certain guitars possess attributes that will suit one player, but not another - So it is only fair to say the same experience can be found when comparing a Suhr or Anderson or C/Shop - I'm not saying either are better - All are excellent guitars in that price range and set the bench marks that others need to measure up against - I feel that such guitars are so well built today that you can't really surpass that - Hence no real obsolescence in the guitar industry
I judge guitars with my hands and ears not eyes and I'm sure you do likewise when building your guitars, staring of with the selection of wood - I have been known to send the odd new C/Shop back if it sounds like a wet cardboard box, but I do find this is a rare event
There is a lot of variation in AV Strats. I've had one for 14 years that is brilliant. I wasn't actually looking to buy a guitar when I bought it. I was in a shop trying out an amp and they got this guitar down off the wall to try the amp with. It was really good. I ended up going back and buying the guitar a couple of weeks later. For a good while after that, when I went to try out an amp, I'd use an AV 62 Strat if the shop had one to try and get an idea of what the amp would sound like with my guitar. Every single one I played was absolutely lifeless compared with mine.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the 57/62 pickups in the older AV Strats aren't as good as the pickups in most CS guitars. Mine did sound really good with the stock pickups but I've now got Fralins in it and it's even better. I've not played the newer AV series guitars so I don't know what the pickups in those are like.
On the other hand I did have a CS Tele (52 specs) for a couple of years. When I bought it I did try one or 2 AVRI 52s that were nowhere near as good.
The AV reissues are made to the right recipe and if you get a good one then they are really good, but they do vary. There is a much higher chance of getting a great guitar with the CS stuff but you can find them in the AV series or even the Mexican Classic Series. I've A/Bed a Mexican Classic Series Strat with a high end US one that cost 2 and half times as much and the Mexican one kicked it's butt. Admittedly the Mexican one was vintage spec (apart from the non-nitro finish) where the US one was more modern spec - which takes me back to the Suhr thing. There is something about the recipe of the vintage spec guitars that makes them different, and they sound better to my ears than a guitar with modern "refinements".
While you can find good guitars in the cheaper ranges, you might find 1 in 20 great guitars in the Mexican range, 3 in 20 with the AV series, and 14 in 20 with the CS guitars. There is also something nice about having a CS guitar - even if it is for shallow reasons.
I own a classic series 50's Mexican Tele and Strat and they both are beautiful guitars. I've had them for years, I play with the set up all the time and I can get them to be whatever I like really. I fit CS pickups in them and they're solid, comfortable and sound great.
However my '63 CS Tele is like driving a Ferrari after those 2 Ford Fiestas - It's tone is so focused and specific - in fact everytime I get a chance to play it live it reminds me SO much of Mike Bloomfields tele on Highway 61 Revisited - that cutting, screaming 60's tele sound - very different from blackguards.
I don't necessarily prefer the CS, in fact I play the £350 strat more often than any of my guitars, even over a £3500 ES335, they are all different. I just think that Custom Shop guitars have a little more focus in their sound and playability.
One thing I do hate though is walking into any number of great guitar shops that stock CS guitars, picking one off the wall and finding it set up with super light gauge strings that does it NO favours at all.
Lastly, I really love Nitrocellulose on a guitar - my CS will chip at the slightest knock, whereas my Mexicans feel like I'll never get through that lacquer. Aesthetic or not, I like that closeness between me and the wood, it feels like the guitar can breathe a lot more.
Harry
Great thread -
My experience - I'm lucky enough to own three vintage guitars (72 Les Paul Custom, 66 Strat and the 62 DC Special from Bridgehouse).
I've played a lot of CS Strats before I got the Strat and a similar (although slightly lower) number of R7/8/9/0 Les Pauls.
I also own a USA Standard Strat I've had from near as dammit new in the mid-90s.
To my mind the run of the mill CS strats are kind of where the Standard should be but actually isn't - I don't know why, but I don't find the standards that amazing. I think the 'production line' CS guitars fill that void, despite having a very battered strat - I hate the relics, it just looks wrong to me - and nothing like the genuine wear on mine.
When I started on this journey I planned to buy CS, but then I played a few of these and they left me cold.
Same with the Gibson (actually more so) - they weren't even close to my old one.
Then I played a CS at Coda when I was trying my amp, and it was very good - was it as good as my original? No, but it was close - for me the big difference I notice is the shoulder on the neck, it's not quite the same - but on a good (Coda/Guitars4you) level CS it's close enough. Close enough that when I get a Tele (what I'm missing), if I can't find what I like and can afford vintage (likely) I would certainly look CS route.
So my take is that good CS guitars are close, they're not there - but close.
Run of the mill CS, are still good guitars - but not really there.
Standards aren't what they were/should be.
Gibson - sorry don't get it, the prices and quality are just completely not where they should be.
And I completely agree - I've played a few 70's Strats, if it were the choice between one of those or a nice CS guitar, no comparison - CS all the way (and they're cheaper).
I recall a phrase from the past - If you can't be better you have to be different - if you can't be different you have to be better
But to an extent, my guess would be yes - 30 years of playing and age will get them there. The underlying quality is right.