“Masterbuilt” or “guitar by stencil”...

crunchman · September 2019

guitars4you said:

I hear that view point so many times and I can't deny your thought pattern - But take into account that my side of the story is based on around 25 years of selling such guitars - Every time we stock some they just don't sell, until I reduce them fairly heavily - I have a nice NOS 52 Tele in stock now - Not only has it not sold yet, to date, the 'viewing click counter' that I can see on my web site, ref the viewing figures for each guitar, is also lower than others

You will have one more click now. I've had a look!

I like the look of that (and it's cheaper than the relics seem to be). I'm not saying that those exact specs would be my ideal. I'd need to try the neck profile. I know I like the late 50's soft V, but I've not really played anything with that U profle. Personally, I've gone off of blonde Teles. They are a bit like silver Ford Focuses and you see them everywhere. I wouldn't want anything outlandish like the guitar equivalent of a Green Hyundai Veloster - black would be fine - but I'd prefer it in another colour. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer a rosewood board as well. Like you said, you might need to keep several to cover all the options. I can understand your point of view, but it does make it difficult for those who don't like relics.

Having said all that, if I was in your shop looking for a guitar, I'd definitely play it before all the relics. If it sounded good and I liked the neck profile, the blonde colour wouldn't be a show stopper. Won't happen in the near future though. I'm still paying off R9 in my avatar that I bought on 0% in the blowout last year.

I prefer a nice shiny new one, but if it came to it, I'd probably buy a nice closet classic or something lightly reliced if it was a good guitar. I'd be ok with Fender doing something like the Gibson VOS as well - although I am tempted to give the R9 a good polish.

It's the over the top relics that I can't stand. I really grew to dislike the fake wear on the one I had previously. A bit of fingerboard wear in places where you would play in popular guitar keys makes sense, but to have heavy wear evenly all over the board just doesn't look right.

I don't like sanded off necks either. I know new necks can be a bit sticky, but I much prefer the feel of a nitro neck that has a couple of hundred hours of playing on it to one where the finish is completely sanded off.

idiotwindow · September 2019

I recently enquired (in a well known London guitar shop) about ordering a CS Tele. As part of the conversation I was asked what I might have in mind and when I mentioned NOS I was looked at as if I was mad.

The other sales assistant within earshot also expressed surprise that I didn't want at least a "Closet" finish and started getting all misty eyed about the beautiful lacquer checking I would be missing out on.

Lewy · September 2019

dindude said:

More intriguing that those who bash relics, is why the defenders take it so personally. It's just opinion.

I’m not entirely sure how else one is supposed to take being called a moron?

Perhaps you can point to some examples of where a relic fan has over-reacted to someone who was just stating they don’t like relics?

Whitecat · September 2019

idiotwindow said:

I recently enquired (in a well known London guitar shop) about ordering a CS Tele. As part of the conversation I was asked what I might have in mind and when I mentioned NOS I was looked at as if I was mad. The other sales assistant within earshot also expressed surprise that I didn't want at least a "Closet" finish and started getting all misty eyed about the beautiful lacquer checking I would be missing out on.

They were probably terrified of you bailing on the deal long after it was ordered and then not being able to sell it!

Personally, with Fender CS, Journeyman or 'regular' relic is where it's at for me (except I wouldn't mind a heavy relic P-bass for some reason!) - but I think NOS is now the only way you can get anything sub-£3k... eek.

idiotwindow · September 2019

Whitecat said:

idiotwindow said:

I recently enquired (in a well known London guitar shop) about ordering a CS Tele. As part of the conversation I was asked what I might have in mind and when I mentioned NOS I was looked at as if I was mad. The other sales assistant within earshot also expressed surprise that I didn't want at least a "Closet" finish and started getting all misty eyed about the beautiful lacquer checking I would be missing out on.

They were probably terrified of you bailing on the deal long after it was ordered and then not being able to sell it!

I hadn't thought of that. When I was telling them what I had in mind there was plenty of enthusiasm and approved looks when I mentioned Shell Pink and Rosewood fingerboard but as soon as I muttered NOS whatever credibility I had went straight out of the window. I'm surprised I wasn't frogmarched out of the shop.

Mark1960 · September 2019

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I LOVE relics; heavier the better for me.

I will say my Masterbuilt Jason Smith ‘63 remains the best Strat Ive ever played; including a few ‘real’ sixties ones.

Just sayin’

I was just wondering, does a guitar that has been heavily reliced play / feel any different to a NOS equivalent? Does the relicing process also wear the neck frets as well, giving it that very smooth comfortable feeling, or are the frets as new?

Whitecat · September 2019

Mark1960 said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I LOVE relics; heavier the better for me.

I will say my Masterbuilt Jason Smith ‘63 remains the best Strat Ive ever played; including a few ‘real’ sixties ones.

Just sayin’

I was just wondering, does a guitar that has been heavily reliced play / feel any different to a NOS equivalent? Does the relicing process also wear the neck frets as well, giving it that very smooth comfortable feeling, or are the frets as new?

Frets are as new IME. Neck wear is worth it though if it’s been “cut back”. The edges are rolled in a little more too sometimes and on maple examples the fretboard itself usually has less lacquer than a new one might. Obviously this all varies a little from builder to builder and depends on the level of relicing involved but to me the nice worn in neck is essentially the most appealing feature.

Mark1960 · September 2019

Whitecat said:

Mark1960 said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I LOVE relics; heavier the better for me.

I will say my Masterbuilt Jason Smith ‘63 remains the best Strat Ive ever played; including a few ‘real’ sixties ones.

Just sayin’

I was just wondering, does a guitar that has been heavily reliced play / feel any different to a NOS equivalent? Does the relicing process also wear the neck frets as well, giving it that very smooth comfortable feeling, or are the frets as new?

Frets are as new IME. Neck wear is worth it though if it’s been “cut back”. The edges are rolled in a little more too sometimes and on maple examples the fretboard itself usually has less lacquer than a new one might. Obviously this all varies a little from builder to builder and depends on the level of relicing involved but to me the nice worn in neck is essentially the most appealing feature.

Yes I can see why that would appeal. My guitar is around 35 years old, and I also like the feel of the worn in neck, to such an extent that new guitars sometimes feel a little odd initially.

fandango · September 2019

ToneControl said:

https://www.facebook.com/thefellowshipofacoustics/photos/a.606141912768387/606141939435051/?type=3&theater

Ah, will that be the “Pete Townsend special finish”, sir?

guitars4you · September 2019

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

I hear that view point so many times and I can't deny your thought pattern - But take into account that my side of the story is based on around 25 years of selling such guitars - Every time we stock some they just don't sell, until I reduce them fairly heavily - I have a nice NOS 52 Tele in stock now - Not only has it not sold yet, to date, the 'viewing click counter' that I can see on my web site, ref the viewing figures for each guitar, is also lower than others

You will have one more click now. I've had a look!
I like the look of that (and it's cheaper than the relics seem to be). I'm not saying that those exact specs would be my ideal. I'd need to try the neck profile. I know I like the late 50's soft V, but I've not really played anything with that U profle. Personally, I've gone off of blonde Teles. They are a bit like silver Ford Focuses and you see them everywhere. I wouldn't want anything outlandish like the guitar equivalent of a Green Hyundai Veloster - black would be fine - but I'd prefer it in another colour. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer a rosewood board as well. Like you said, you might need to keep several to cover all the options. I can understand your point of view, but it does make it difficult for those who don't like relics.
Having said all that, if I was in your shop looking for a guitar, I'd definitely play it before all the relics. If it sounded good and I liked the neck profile, the blonde colour wouldn't be a show stopper. Won't happen in the near future though. I'm still paying off R9 in my avatar that I bought on 0% in the blowout last year.
I prefer a nice shiny new one, but if it came to it, I'd probably buy a nice closet classic or something lightly reliced if it was a good guitar. I'd be ok with Fender doing something like the Gibson VOS as well - although I am tempted to give the R9 a good polish.
It's the over the top relics that I can't stand. I really grew to dislike the fake wear on the one I had previously. A bit of fingerboard wear in places where you would play in popular guitar keys makes sense, but to have heavy wear evenly all over the board just doesn't look right.
I don't like sanded off necks either. I know new necks can be a bit sticky, but I much prefer the feel of a nitro neck that has a couple of hundred hours of playing on it to one where the finish is completely sanded off.

those black guard Tele's are equally institutionalised aren't they regarding the 'blonde' finish - I've a couple on order in a 50's 2 burst, but almost another colour appears to go against the accepted criteria

Not so bad on 60's Tele's with rosewood boards in that other colours sell and are accepted - But unless custom spec'd and ordered you don't get the big U neck profile - Obviously some like that and others find it to much to handle

Lightly relic'd as per a Journeyman finish are not probably the best selling option and probably more realistic - Some have a very worn neck, most are more 'satin' so some of the sheen taken off, but not the dirty worn character

Whitecat · September 2019

guitars4you said:

crunchman said:

guitars4you said:

I hear that view point so many times and I can't deny your thought pattern - But take into account that my side of the story is based on around 25 years of selling such guitars - Every time we stock some they just don't sell, until I reduce them fairly heavily - I have a nice NOS 52 Tele in stock now - Not only has it not sold yet, to date, the 'viewing click counter' that I can see on my web site, ref the viewing figures for each guitar, is also lower than others

You will have one more click now. I've had a look!
I like the look of that (and it's cheaper than the relics seem to be). I'm not saying that those exact specs would be my ideal. I'd need to try the neck profile. I know I like the late 50's soft V, but I've not really played anything with that U profle. Personally, I've gone off of blonde Teles. They are a bit like silver Ford Focuses and you see them everywhere. I wouldn't want anything outlandish like the guitar equivalent of a Green Hyundai Veloster - black would be fine - but I'd prefer it in another colour. I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer a rosewood board as well. Like you said, you might need to keep several to cover all the options. I can understand your point of view, but it does make it difficult for those who don't like relics.
Having said all that, if I was in your shop looking for a guitar, I'd definitely play it before all the relics. If it sounded good and I liked the neck profile, the blonde colour wouldn't be a show stopper. Won't happen in the near future though. I'm still paying off R9 in my avatar that I bought on 0% in the blowout last year.
I prefer a nice shiny new one, but if it came to it, I'd probably buy a nice closet classic or something lightly reliced if it was a good guitar. I'd be ok with Fender doing something like the Gibson VOS as well - although I am tempted to give the R9 a good polish.
It's the over the top relics that I can't stand. I really grew to dislike the fake wear on the one I had previously. A bit of fingerboard wear in places where you would play in popular guitar keys makes sense, but to have heavy wear evenly all over the board just doesn't look right.
I don't like sanded off necks either. I know new necks can be a bit sticky, but I much prefer the feel of a nitro neck that has a couple of hundred hours of playing on it to one where the finish is completely sanded off.

those black guard Tele's are equally institutionalised aren't they regarding the 'blonde' finish - I've a couple on order in a 50's 2 burst, but almost another colour appears to go against the accepted criteria

Not so bad on 60's Tele's with rosewood boards in that other colours sell and are accepted - But unless custom spec'd and ordered you don't get the big U neck profile - Obviously some like that and others find it to much to handle

Lightly relic'd as per a Journeyman finish are not probably the best selling option and probably more realistic - Some have a very worn neck, most are more 'satin' so some of the sheen taken off, but not the dirty worn character

If I’m honest about the Journeyman finish this is the one thing that I find baffling - neck wear is totally arbitrary. Some have the lacquer cut back a lot, others barely at all. Wish it were consistently the former!

lysander · September 2019

Yeah it’d be much more consistent if they use some kind of jig, like a stencil or something.

Philly_Q · September 2019

Whitecat said:
If I’m honest about the Journeyman finish this is the one thing that I find baffling - neck wear is totally arbitrary. Some have the lacquer cut back a lot, others barely at all. Wish it were consistently the former!

True, they are inconsistent. My Ancho Poblano Strat has the Journeyman finish on the body, not much wear, but the back of the neck is pretty much totally stripped. On my custom ordered '70s hardtail there's a lot more wear on the body but the neck is almost fully lacquered.

antonyiv · September 2019

jeztone2 said:
Exactly my Tele fell off a stand at its first gig. I shat myself at the time but now it’s a quite funny memory.

I would be more concerned about the floor.

dindude · September 2019

Lewy said:

dindude said:

More intriguing that those who bash relics, is why the defenders take it so personally. It's just opinion.

I’m not entirely sure how else one is supposed to take being called a moron?

Perhaps you can point to some examples of where a relic fan has over-reacted to someone who was just stating they don’t like relics?

Oh come on. I take the piss out of Honda Jazz owners for being dithering old twats. One of my best friends bought a Jazz recently. I take the piss out of him. I don’t actually think he’s a twat, I’m not going to de-friend him. No one actually called you a moron, just someone expressing their opinion in an exaggerated yet comical way. Not sure why I’m even taking the time to explain this, am I the only one who sees the comments for what they are!

Wazmeister · September 2019

Mark1960 said:

Whitecat said:

Mark1960 said:

Wazmeister said:

Interesting thread...

I LOVE relics; heavier the better for me.

I will say my Masterbuilt Jason Smith ‘63 remains the best Strat Ive ever played; including a few ‘real’ sixties ones.

Just sayin’

I was just wondering, does a guitar that has been heavily reliced play / feel any different to a NOS equivalent? Does the relicing process also wear the neck frets as well, giving it that very smooth comfortable feeling, or are the frets as new?

Frets are as new IME. Neck wear is worth it though if it’s been “cut back”. The edges are rolled in a little more too sometimes and on maple examples the fretboard itself usually has less lacquer than a new one might. Obviously this all varies a little from builder to builder and depends on the level of relicing involved but to me the nice worn in neck is essentially the most appealing feature.

Yes I can see why that would appeal. My guitar is around 35 years old, and I also like the feel of the worn in neck, to such an extent that new guitars sometimes feel a little odd initially.

Thats exactly what a MB Relic feels like to me... worn in, and ‘old slipper’ comfy

Lewy · September 2019

dindude said:

Lewy said:

dindude said:

More intriguing that those who bash relics, is why the defenders take it so personally. It's just opinion.

I’m not entirely sure how else one is supposed to take being called a moron?

Perhaps you can point to some examples of where a relic fan has over-reacted to someone who was just stating they don’t like relics?

Oh come on. I take the piss out of Honda Jazz owners for being dithering old twats. One of my best friends bought a Jazz recently. I take the piss out of him. I don’t actually think he’s a twat, I’m not going to de-friend him. No one actually called you a moron, just someone expressing their opinion in an exaggerated yet comical way. Not sure why I’m even taking the time to explain this, am I the only one who sees the comments for what they are!

You expressed intrigue at why people who like relics tend to take the criticism personally. I pointed out that it's because the criticism tends to be personal. Not sure why that's got you chucking a Clarkson.

dindude · September 2019

Lewy said:

dindude said:

Lewy said:

dindude said:

More intriguing that those who bash relics, is why the defenders take it so personally. It's just opinion.

I’m not entirely sure how else one is supposed to take being called a moron?

Perhaps you can point to some examples of where a relic fan has over-reacted to someone who was just stating they don’t like relics?

Oh come on. I take the piss out of Honda Jazz owners for being dithering old twats. One of my best friends bought a Jazz recently. I take the piss out of him. I don’t actually think he’s a twat, I’m not going to de-friend him. No one actually called you a moron, just someone expressing their opinion in an exaggerated yet comical way. Not sure why I’m even taking the time to explain this, am I the only one who sees the comments for what they are!

You expressed intrigue at why people who like relics tend to take the criticism personally. I pointed out that it's because the criticism tends to be personal. Not sure why that's got you chucking a Clarkson.

Ha ha, let’s finish on that note, I like “chucking a Clarkson”

victorludorum · September 2019

How long before a seller is asked 'Is it a stencil relic or done by hand?'?

Maybe it's already happened...

Dominic · September 2019

The irony is that a real worn /well used guitar would be generally decent condition ,the very odd dink and one fucking huge ugly gouge out of it where it had fallen off a stand ,been accidentally crunched into the bassist's machine head or had a mic stand dropped on it
.....of course, that would just look like a damaged guitar and be a lot less appealing ! even tho't's more real

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