Brexit to be triggered tomorrow - what if the severance deal is a bad one for the UK?

fields5069

Clarky said:

bwets said:

I am not happy that an unelected leader is negotiating something so important. She has no track record as PM. No one has voted for any kind of manifesto with regards to a new deal with the EU. I would have liked a general election before Article 50 was triggered.

but all the leavers keep ramming down the remoaners throats that democracy spoke so get over it…

this continues to get funnier.. lmao

Er, except it didn't. Electing a government is a democratic process, but then if that government decides to invoke a practice from a different system of rule, does that stay democratic? It was ochlocratic, and something spelled like that can never succeed.

Snap

FFS, why do people moan???

Democracy - course we have bleeding democracy. More people should get out and vote. We've all got the opportunity

Why should we have an arsing election to decide if we like the terms of disengagement?? We had the most democratic process you can- a referbleedingendum to decide if we wanted in or out. If people were too thick or disengaged to equip themselves well enough to make a choice, that's what happens when you have untrammelled democracy. That was the big mistake, going to the people on it. A general election would similary be a mistake: people are not armed with enough info to make a choice, that';s why we have MPs to do it for us, its' their job.

the very fact that people come out with statements like Theresa May is not elected shows a very common misudnerstanding of how politics work.

We need a dictatorship, not democracy. Just me and a few clever mates running it all.

Brexit my arse. Who wants to join up?

vale

https://s23.postimg.org/qrrpfu3e3/brexit_bins.jpg

https://twitter.com/Anna_Mazz/status/847087680727007232

Gassage

Snap said:

Brexit my arse. Who wants to join up?

Can I be Minister for Cornish?

Heartfeltdawn

quarky said:

Not sure how the parties making public their negotiating position is really going to help get the best deal for the UK. Especially as the Tories would be an absolute shoe-in if an election was held now.

I recall a number of prominent Brexiteers were decidedly worried about TTIP and one reason was that negotiations were done in the dark. It's therefore odd that our negotiations over the EU and leaving should be done likewise. 

quarky

Octafish said:

quarky said:

Octafish said:

quarky said:

So now we are not a democracy? Right...

You think a government elected by 11,299,959 (34%) out of 30,691,680 people who voted is democratic? What is your definition of democracy?

A democracy is where the population (or the vast majority) gets to elect their ruling body. That is what we have. It may not be the best way (I don't think I would have geographical boundaries at all really), but it is still democracy.

Are you a labour or LibDem voter by any chance?

....and you think 34% is the defintion of the "vast majority"? I'm not a Labour or Lib Dem voter, I think they're all awful and that MPs aren't held to account because of our electoral system and safe seats. Regardles of that do you think a system where a party that gets 5 times the votes of another gets 41 times the parliamentary power is representative of the people? 

As I said, the vast majority get to elect there representatives.

That. Is. What. Happens.

Democracy does NOT mean that that there has to be a party that gets more than 50% of all possible votes.

mikeyrob73

vale said:

https://s23.postimg.org/qrrpfu3e3/brexit_bins.jpg

https://twitter.com/Anna_Mazz/status/847087680727007232

is it tied to bins coz he doesnt like Poles? 

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

I get what your saying about an election but I can't see how you could create a manifesto to trigger A50 as we might think it's great, vote for it and the EU sticks up two fingers and says 'in your dreams UK' lets start again. In any case I think if we had an election May would get a landslide - Corbyn is as  effective as a cat flap in an elephant house - do we really want the Tories to have a 50 seat majority? I don't.

The more one looks at the figures and the divisions, I can't help but think that a 2015 General Election fought between decisively Out Conservative and UKIP parties and decisively In Labour, SNP, and Lib Dem parties, then we would not have had a Conservative majority in my view. Hung parliament-tastic, and it's for that reason that the In/Out question was put to a referendum rather than being settled at the GE ballot boxes. 

vale

i thought neil hamilton was dead or in prison. just dead from the neck up.

Labour Assembly Member (AM) Elenud Morgan was expressing her regret over Britain leaving the EU:

"Today’s a profoundly sad day for the nation and also for our children and our children’s children. Of course, those who will pay the highest price for Article 50 will be those who can least afford it.

Hamilton was heard to respond that: “suicide is an option.”

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/03/30/ukips-neil-hamilton-called-upon-resign-sick-suicide-joke-poor-children-video/

digitalscream

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

I get what your saying about an election but I can't see how you could create a manifesto to trigger A50 as we might think it's great, vote for it and the EU sticks up two fingers and says 'in your dreams UK' lets start again. In any case I think if we had an election May would get a landslide - Corbyn is as  effective as a cat flap in an elephant house - do we really want the Tories to have a 50 seat majority? I don't.

The more one looks at the figures and the divisions, I can't help but think that a 2015 General Election fought between decisively Out Conservative and UKIP parties and decisively In Labour, SNP, and Lib Dem parties, then we would not have had a Conservative majority in my view. Hung parliament-tastic, and it's for that reason that the In/Out question was put to a referendum rather than being settled at the GE ballot boxes. 

...except the Conservatives weren't decisively "Out" - to my understanding, most of them were Remain campaigners. I don't think Labour weren't mostly "In" either (although I've been wrong a couple of times on this thread, so who knows?).

Heartfeltdawn

I know, it was hypothetical musing on how things might have gone in 2015 with decisive manifesto positions. Imagine the 2015 Conservative Party if DC had launched an election manifesto saying "Right, we're out". It would have fractured the party far more than Ed Miliband launching a manifesto that same election saying "Labour - we are decisively in favour of the EU". The only way to avoid this fracturing was to have a referendum after the main event.

PolarityMan

Evilmags said:

The other side of any divorce is a splitting of assets that are mutually owned. The UK has a claim on a lot of EU assets (although what it would do with Spanish motorways I'm not sure) 

To be fair my experience of driving there is the spanish arent sure hat to do with their motorways either? 

Fretwired

Clarky said:

Fretwired said:

Evilmags said:

The other side of any divorce is a splitting of assets that are mutually owned. The UK has a claim on a lot of EU assets (although what it would do with Spanish motorways I'm not sure) 

It's not a divorce - we're leaving a club.

I hope I don't get hit with a multi billion euro bill when I leave my local snooker club.. lol..

You often do leaving a posh golf club. The posh golf club near me (which I can't afford) has no fees .. the costs are worked out and you're sent the bill. Leave mid way through and they send you a bill just like the EU.

exocet

vale said:

https://s23.postimg.org/qrrpfu3e3/brexit_bins.jpg

https://twitter.com/Anna_Mazz/status/847087680727007232

He seems like a nice chap?

http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/local-news/cheshire-east-councillor-brian-silvester-5600229

Pretty sure he had the Union Jack the right way up though?

digitalscream

Aye, I think it is the right way up...unless you presume the pole is on the right.

If you want to get a window into his mind, check out his Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/CllrBSilvester

He actually seems to do nothing all day except firing off Tweets.

Rocker

Gassage said:

PM's are not elected- parties are.

Actually it is MPs that are elected @Gassage, not parties.

TheBigDipper

Rocker said:

Gassage said:

PM's are not elected- parties are.

Actually it is MPs that are elected @Gassage, not parties.

True enough. A very out-of-date way of selecting who sits in parliament. It worked in the days of no telegraph communications and Parliament being 2-3 days travel away for most constituencies, but not very helpful today. The Referendum was one of the few occasions where my vote actually mattered. I normally find myself voting against the majority in my area and never getting my candidate selected - so my views never get represented. 

PR works, and tempers extremism - but wouldn't work for the vested interests in the Conservatives or Labour - which is why it will never happen.

exocet

digitalscream said:

Aye, I think it is the right way up...unless you presume the pole is on the right.

If you want to get a window into his mind, check out his Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/CllrBSilvester

He actually seems to do nothing all day except firing off Tweets.

Councillor Brian Trump I presume?

Evilmags

PolarityMan said:

Evilmags said:

The other side of any divorce is a splitting of assets that are mutually owned. The UK has a claim on a lot of EU assets (although what it would do with Spanish motorways I'm not sure) 

To be fair my experience of driving there is the spanish arent sure hat to do with their motorways either? 

Not wrong there. They refuse to use the utterly empty toll roads in Madrid. Making them police free amd fun. The idiots on the Madrid ring road are insane. 

Sambostar

exocet said:

vale said:

https://s23.postimg.org/qrrpfu3e3/brexit_bins.jpg

https://twitter.com/Anna_Mazz/status/847087680727007232

He seems like a nice chap?

http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/news/local-news/cheshire-east-councillor-brian-silvester-5600229

Pretty sure he had the Union Jack the right way up though?

It is the right way up, stupid cynical shit stirring remoaning self righteous pompous Italian bitch and she's a criminal solicitor,  what a tool.  about right given her surname.