Clarky and the Helix

Teetonetal

Agree with @gibsongretschfan helix headphone out is very stiff sounding. I get good results running the 1/4 Jacks into a  headphone amp. Worlds better.

Clarky

the Helix is connected to my mixing desk
the mixer connects to my monitors and to a headphone amp

all fx-units stiffen up through cans.. some seems to be worse than others..

I do most of my practice, recording etc with cans on so I don't upset the neighbourhood .. lol

ThePrettyDamned

fretmeister said:

guitarfishbay said:

To be honest I prefer the BSW to the Fractal synths as well, crazy given how cheap they are. It's a good octaver too.

I have 3. Just in case!"  

Works damn well on guitar too! I love mine. I might get another couple spare as I reckon in twenty years it'll be a classic, much like the akai synth Muse use. 

fretmeister

They've stopped making them, so get them while they are still cheap used.

fretmeister

Clarky said:

fretmeister said:

Clarky said:

I've found how to get the feel back..
play through speakers / monitors with some reasonable volume…

ah yeah.. and a 20dB boost into the hi-gain amp

it's just thru cans that it feels quite stiff

Apparently using the mic pre is great before the amp too.

Not had a chance to try it yet.

I guess there are two approaches
grab that lil' signal and pump it silly before launching it into the amp
or.. get some compression / dirt happening first.. then slam the amp

my personal take with gain / dirt is that I prefer it to happen only in one place
either stomp, or preamp, or power amp, but never more than one of them cos it typically gets fizzy or mushy..
I love hi-gain [no secret.. lol.] but I still need definition

I tried the Mic preamp as a boost pedal

It's shit.

Glad I could help!  

gearaddict

fretmeister said:

Clarky said:

fretmeister said:

Clarky said:

I've found how to get the feel back..
play through speakers / monitors with some reasonable volume…

ah yeah.. and a 20dB boost into the hi-gain amp

it's just thru cans that it feels quite stiff

Apparently using the mic pre is great before the amp too.

Not had a chance to try it yet.

I guess there are two approaches
grab that lil' signal and pump it silly before launching it into the amp
or.. get some compression / dirt happening first.. then slam the amp

my personal take with gain / dirt is that I prefer it to happen only in one place
either stomp, or preamp, or power amp, but never more than one of them cos it typically gets fizzy or mushy..
I love hi-gain [no secret.. lol.] but I still need definition

I tried the Mic preamp as a boost pedal

It's shit.

Glad I could help!  

I tried it too - I though it was good but I prefer Timmeh!!

Clarky

I reckon that success will depend on the resultant tone that you're after..
along with the type of amp you're choosing..
I'll hazard a guess that a hot mic pre-amp may be quite nice in front of a low / mid-gain amp to add some spice and compression.. think Steve Howe in the early 70's with his Fender Twin's very aggressive "clean" tone...
it's certainly dirty.. but nothing like a 5150..

maybe placing the mic pre-amp in front of a hi-gain amp could result in some mush

guitarfishbay

Clarky which amp model(s) are you using?

Clarky

5150 and the Engl
they're not bad actually

guitarfishbay

I need to try the Engl, haven't had a go on that yet.

So far the only model I'm getting on with is the Archon with a boost in front.

Sporky

I tried the path splitting thing and I think it works, will post some detail later. It does use up four extra blocks though for the sends and returns... Though now I think about it I think that could be done in two by crossing the patch leads.

Jonathanthomas83

The Engl on the Helix is really nice.

Cabicular

I might give it a go
im not a fan of the real amp though which is why I had avoided it

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

I need to try the Engl, haven't had a go on that yet.

So far the only model I'm getting on with is the Archon with a boost in front.

I'm using the Engl on the right side with the 5150 on the left for the riffing tone
the amps are similar enough to be of the same tone family, but deferent enough to interact and generate size

Clarky

Sporky said:

I tried the path splitting thing and I think it works, will post some detail later. It does use up four extra blocks though for the sends and returns... Though now I think about it I think that could be done in two by crossing the patch leads.

this never occurred to me..

haaa.. think outside the box..

guitarfishbay

Clarky said:

guitarfishbay said:

I need to try the Engl, haven't had a go on that yet.

So far the only model I'm getting on with is the Archon with a boost in front.

I'm using the Engl on the right side with the 5150 on the left for the riffing tone
the amps are similar enough to be of the same tone family, but deferent enough to interact and generate size

It's not really size that I have an issue with, it's the tightness of the punch (from the wound strings) and glassiness of the crunch (from the plain strings) I'm having trouble with.  Along with the weight tracking the note if you do single notes that should sound thick enough but the tone still be tight and crunchy with chords.

I don't feel like I'm worried about that stuff with the Axe FX, it just sounds and responds how I want. Pretty much plug in and play, I don't really touch the advanced parameters and feel I get a lot of mileage out of one sound and playing dynamics.  With the Helix amps I feel like I'm picking between characteristics I want, and needing to use the advanced parameters to try and get a best compromise.  Totally recognise this is taste driven...

In the Axe I mostly use Recto 1 Red Modern, any of the 5150/6505 red channels, and a couple of the Mark models for something a bit more dry sounding.  I only ever use one amp at a time, though for recording I'll use a different amp each side (but different performances).

In the Helix I'm mostly using the Archon so far.  I've not got on with either the Recto or Mark models, and the 5150 sounds ok but it feels voiced a bit too deep, if that makes any sense at all.  Like one of my core sounds is high gain amp -> 2x12 closed back cab.  I can't figure how to get it so the low end is in the right place for that on the Helix models.  With the Axe FX I just tweak the low frequency resonance so it's less wide and voiced higher.

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

Clarky said:

guitarfishbay said:

I need to try the Engl, haven't had a go on that yet.

So far the only model I'm getting on with is the Archon with a boost in front.

I'm using the Engl on the right side with the 5150 on the left for the riffing tone
the amps are similar enough to be of the same tone family, but deferent enough to interact and generate size

It's not really size that I have an issue with, it's the tightness of the punch (from the wound strings) and glassiness of the crunch (from the plain strings) I'm having trouble with.  Along with the weight tracking the note if you do single notes that should sound thick enough but the tone still be tight and crunchy with chords.

I don't feel like I'm worried about that stuff with the Axe FX, it just sounds and responds how I want. Pretty much plug in and play, I don't really touch the advanced parameters and feel I get a lot of mileage out of one sound and playing dynamics.  With the Helix amps I feel like I'm picking between characteristics I want, and needing to use the advanced parameters to try and get a best compromise.  Totally recognise this is taste driven...

In the Axe I mostly use Recto 1 Red Modern, any of the 5150/6505 red channels, and a couple of the Mark models for something a bit more dry sounding.  I only ever use one amp at a time, though for recording I'll use a different amp each side (but different performances).

In the Helix I'm mostly using the Archon so far.  I've not got on with either the Recto or Mark models, and the 5150 sounds ok but it feels voiced a bit too deep, if that makes any sense at all.  Like one of my core sounds is high gain amp -> 2x12 closed back cab.  I can't figure how to get it so the low end is in the right place for that on the Helix models.  With the Axe FX I just tweak the low frequency resonance so it's less wide and voiced higher.

in the Helix I did the same trick I do in the Axe to tighten the low end..
placed a filter in front of the amp and cut the lows up to about 700Hz and the hi's down to around 900Hz..
and then use the filter's level control to apply plenty of boost
this emulates going through a tube screamer set clean..
it means that the mids get all the gain, the extreme hi's and lo's are less impacted..
you then shape the eq after the cab and put the hi's and lo's back to taste..

the idea is to prevent that big goofy bloom in the low end and defies the top end by shaping the signal entering the amp

and of course when I switch to the clean snapshot, this filter is bypassed

guitarfishbay

Clarky said:

in the Helix I did the same trick I do in the Axe to tighten the low end..
placed a filter in front of the amp and cut the lows up to about 700Hz and the hi's down to around 900Hz..
and then use the filter's level control to apply plenty of boost
this emulates going through a tube screamer set clean..
it means that the mids get all the gain, the extreme hi's and lo's are less impacted..
you then shape the eq after the cab and put the hi's and lo's back to taste..

the idea is to prevent that big goofy bloom in the low end and defies the top end by shaping the signal entering the amp

and of course when I switch to the clean snapshot, this filter is bypassed

Maybe I do need to play with EQ blocks then.  I don't use them in the Axe FX, don't find them necessary.

I use EMG 81s which basically do something similar anyway - they chop off the deep lows, and have a lot less detail in the treble than a comparable high output ceramic (which I often find have too much fizz for my liking).  The tightest pickups I've found by a long way, though they're not for everyone.  I play in drop B FWIW.

I'll give the amps a go with my Les Paul this weekend, still got passives in that.  Wonder if that's a factor.

guitarfishbay

I will add that I generally don't like to spend time tweaking things.  I spent ages comparing and doing A/Bs, tweaking, and not actually making music... eventually hit a wall with it and stopped worrying though it did help me figure out what I like or not.  I just know if I'm feeling like I'm distracted by the gear rather than just using it to make music with it's possibly not the right gear for me.

gearaddict

Jonathanthomas83 said:

The Engl on the Helix is really nice.

Yeah - I've gravitated to that amp quite quickly. I find it a bit jarring to go from a high gain amp to a different clean amp so I tend to stick with the one and adjust the gain on the amp using the expression pedal. So I just tilt the pedal all the way back for clean.

Not very adventurous I suppose...I feel a bit guilty for not making full use of all the available amps!