Clarky and the Helix

guitarfishbay

Yeah I think the whole point was to go smaller and lighter for travelling.  When you start adding additional pedals and power supplies you add size, weight, and potential failure points, not to mention cost, so it's not really going to work for Clarky unless something does the whole job in a single unit.

Clarky

Beexter said:

@Clarky - would it not be solvable by running some additional effects in the Helix's loops?

I have a Fractal AX8 but still prefer to run an EHX Pitch Fork in its FX loop as I'm not entirely happy with the  pitch shifting on the AX8. That of course, could be user error but using the Pitch Fork also helps free up DSP 

The object of the exercise is to save weight and space
If I got a tip top shifter and multi-tap delay externally I'll only be marginally better off and the solution starts getting costly.
Helix, FV-500's and power amp. 

The Alternative will be to go out with the VG-99, FC-300, FV-500's and a power amp
This will cost nothing cos I have it already
The amp modelling is not as good as the Helix but is good enough.

The Helix with added extras will be better than the VG-99, but the total cost makes me ask 'is it worth it?'

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Beexter what part if the pitch block do you not get on with? 

it cannot handle chord at all well
the -12ve lacks gonads, the +12ve is very metallic sounding..

Clarky

Sporky said:

Beexter said:

@Clarky - would it not be solvable by running some additional effects in the Helix's loops?

I think that defeats the anti-faff part of the benefit in going Helix.

absolutely

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

Yeah I think the whole point was to go smaller and lighter for travelling.  When you start adding additional pedals and power supplies you add size, weight, and potential failure points, not to mention cost, so it's not really going to work for Clarky unless something does the whole job in a single unit.

absolutely...
it's also about justifying the cost..
a Helix is not exactly cheap.. neither was the VG-99 / FC-300..

within the EU I can hire an Axe-FX and have my config converted to that model and loaded
outside of the EU I'll take a single Axe-FX and power amp to cut the weight.. and run a bit of a risk

Beexter

Clarky said:

Beexter said:

@Clarky - would it not be solvable by running some additional effects in the Helix's loops?

I have a Fractal AX8 but still prefer to run an EHX Pitch Fork in its FX loop as I'm not entirely happy with the  pitch shifting on the AX8. That of course, could be user error but using the Pitch Fork also helps free up DSP 

The object of the exercise is to save weight and space
If I got a tip top shifter and multi-tap delay externally I'll only be marginally better off and the solution starts getting costly.
Helix, FV-500's and power amp. 

The Alternative will be to go out with the VG-99, FC-300, FV-500's and a power amp
This will cost nothing cos I have it already
The amp modelling is not as good as the Helix but is good enough.

The Helix with added extras will be better than the VG-99, but the total cost makes me ask 'is it worth it?'

I getcha

Roland

This has been a very interesting story to watch. @Clarky has particular requirements, which lead him to his conclusion. Outside of those the Helix stands up as a very capable device. As a long time Axe-FX user I've always expected that the Helix would give Fractal a run for their money. I'm pleased that we have two competitors driving the market forward, rather than trying to subjugate their competitors with law suits, or mislead their customers with marketing bullshit.

Clarky

Roland said:

This has been a very interesting story to watch. @Clarky has particular requirements, which lead him to his conclusion. Outside of those the Helix stands up as a very capable device. As a long time Axe-FX user I've always expected that the Helix would give Fractal a run for their money. I'm pleased that we have two competitors driving the market forward, rather than trying to subjugate their competitors with law suits, or mislead their customers with marketing bullshit.

I agree with all of this...
and for a great many folks [that don't have quite such tricky needs as my own] the choice between Helix and Axe will be a very close call..

even though the Helix is not really suitable for me, I now know enough about it to have a great respect for a highly capable and great sounding unit..

if you could take the best bits of the Helix and Axe, stuff them in a floor unit with FC-300 style switches and low profile, and with MFC-101 level of configurability and external pedal / switch support, and Roland style robustness and MIDI support..
then priced it at about 1500 squid
I'd buy two in a heartbeat...

Teetonetal

Iirc the pitch shifting was updated then rolled back as it had a bug. The update was better at polyphonic stuff but the current version is not, so I wonder if l6 are still working on that block.

Clarky

Teetonetal said:

Iirc the pitch shifting was updated then rolled back as it had a bug. The update was better at polyphonic stuff but the current version is not, so I wonder if l6 are still working on that block.

I think they need to..
I tracks fine if you're playing single notes or root and 5 / root and 4th.. 
but anything more than that and it starts generating strange sub-harmonics
it's tone is not that great either.. 
bit of a shame really.. I hope they sort it

Unorthodox

Clarky said:

Teetonetal said:

Iirc the pitch shifting was updated then rolled back as it had a bug. The update was better at polyphonic stuff but the current version is not, so I wonder if l6 are still working on that block.

I think they need to..
I tracks fine if you're playing single notes or root and 5 / root and 4th.. 
but anything more than that and it starts generating strange sub-harmonics
it's tone is not that great either.. 
bit of a shame really.. I hope they sort it

This is the reason I've got a TC Sub n Up to put in one of the Helix's fx loops. Helix monophonic stuff is fine (absolutely love the Pitch Ring Mod set to a perfect octave down), but would be nice if Line 6 could do some polyphonic stuff in an update.

Would I be wrong in thinking that polyphonic pitch shifting would need a very large amount of DSP? Is it something that is even possible with the Helix?

Clarky

Unorthodox said:

Clarky said:

Teetonetal said:

Iirc the pitch shifting was updated then rolled back as it had a bug. The update was better at polyphonic stuff but the current version is not, so I wonder if l6 are still working on that block.

I think they need to..
I tracks fine if you're playing single notes or root and 5 / root and 4th.. 
but anything more than that and it starts generating strange sub-harmonics
it's tone is not that great either.. 
bit of a shame really.. I hope they sort it

This is the reason I've got a TC Sub n Up to put in one of the Helix's fx loops. Helix monophonic stuff is fine (absolutely love the Pitch Ring Mod set to a perfect octave down), but would be nice if Line 6 could do some polyphonic stuff in an update.

Would I be wrong in thinking that polyphonic pitch shifting would need a very large amount of DSP? Is it something that is even possible with the Helix?

I don't know about DSP, but it just needs better pitch detection software
if it's more complex then maybe it would impact DSP resources..

Drew_TNBD

What's quite funny is that me and @Clarky are similar in that we're power users. But he can't get the Helix to work for him, and I can't get the FX8 to work for me!!

This is a patch I came up with recently to create an nice ambient synth wash that can also clean up and turn into a chorused clean tone.

And yes, every effect is necessary!!



Try as I might, I just can't get this tone out of the FX8. Not enough effect slots.

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

What's quite funny is that me and @Clarky are similar in that we're power users. But he can't get the Helix to work for him, and I can't get the FX8 to work for me!!

This is a patch I came up with recently to create an nice ambient synth wash that can also clean up and turn into a chorused clean tone.

And yes, every effect is necessary!!



Try as I might, I just can't get this tone out of the FX8. Not enough effect slots.

I doubt I could get the AX8 or FX8 to work for me..
I've come to the conclusion that only thew Axe-II can hit the spot for me

Jonathanthomas83

@Drew_TNBD was thinking about this last night, as neither if the modellers hit the nail for you in terms of amp modelling, have you tried a Kemper? If so what are your thoughts?

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Drew_TNBD was thinking about this last night, as neither if the modellers hit the nail for you in terms of amp modelling, have you tried a Kemper? If so what are your thoughts?

I've owned three Kempers.

It's my least favourite modeller of them all tbh. Mainly because they set the bar soooooo high with their claims, and in my experience it has never delivered on those promises 100%.

Jonathanthomas83

That's interesting and good to know. So many people say "it's the best", but I didn't think they've tried all three like you have.

Drew_TNBD

Jonathanthomas83 said:

That's interesting and good to know. So many people say "it's the best", but I didn't think they've tried all three like you have.

It's mainly the low-end. There is something not right about it. It never matched up with any of the profiles I made, and that was across two different studios.

Clarky

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

That's interesting and good to know. So many people say "it's the best", but I didn't think they've tried all three like you have.

It's mainly the low-end. There is something not right about it. It never matched up with any of the profiles I made, and that was across two different studios.

I think what you do is spot on for your needs..
a big fat real Diezel and some sophisticated stuff going on in the fx-loop for all your ambient goodies....

Drew_TNBD

Clarky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

That's interesting and good to know. So many people say "it's the best", but I didn't think they've tried all three like you have.

It's mainly the low-end. There is something not right about it. It never matched up with any of the profiles I made, and that was across two different studios.

I think what you do is spot on for your needs..
a big fat real Diezel and some sophisticated stuff going on in the fx-loop for all your ambient goodies....

Truth is, I don't even really use the post-effects thing!! I could plug my Helix into the front of the amp and get the exact same tones right now!

The first one where I've put delays and reverbs after the amp distortion is that synth patch I posted earlier. I intend to experiment more though, which is why I keep doing 4cm with it.

As for your stuff.. I sorta knew you wouldn't get along with the Helix ultimately. I remember your patches being very involved in terms of control stuff, and the Helix is a bit too simple in that area. I also figured the lack of a full on 4x12 'anything can be wired anywhere' grid would hold you back too.