Clarky and the Helix

guitarfishbay

gearaddict said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

The Engl on the Helix is really nice.

Yeah - I've gravitated to that amp quite quickly. I find it a bit jarring to go from a high gain amp to a different clean amp so I tend to stick with the one and adjust the gain on the amp using the expression pedal. So I just tilt the pedal all the way back for clean.

Not very adventurous I suppose...I feel a bit guilty for not making full use of all the available amps!

Who cares if it works for you though!

There are at least 100 amp models on the Axe FX I've never even played a note through, probably more

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

Clarky said:

in the Helix I did the same trick I do in the Axe to tighten the low end..
placed a filter in front of the amp and cut the lows up to about 700Hz and the hi's down to around 900Hz..
and then use the filter's level control to apply plenty of boost
this emulates going through a tube screamer set clean..
it means that the mids get all the gain, the extreme hi's and lo's are less impacted..
you then shape the eq after the cab and put the hi's and lo's back to taste..

the idea is to prevent that big goofy bloom in the low end and defies the top end by shaping the signal entering the amp

and of course when I switch to the clean snapshot, this filter is bypassed

Maybe I do need to play with EQ blocks then.  I don't use them in the Axe FX, don't find them necessary.

I use EMG 81s which basically do something similar anyway - they chop off the deep lows, and have a lot less detail in the treble than a comparable high output ceramic (which I often find have too much fizz for my liking).  The tightest pickups I've found by a long way, though they're not for everyone.  I play in drop B FWIW.

I'll give the amps a go with my Les Paul this weekend, still got passives in that.  Wonder if that's a factor.

in the Axe FIL block, just use hi cut and lo cut

one of my students has active EMG's
can't say I like them that much myself..
they're a bit too one dimensional for my tastes..
I prefer a nice reasonably hot alnico 5

guitarfishbay

I like the 81s for low tunings with the tone pots removed. They're a bit more raunchy that way, and they don't clip so easily and have more dynamic range (they can be a bit flat with the tonepots in 9v if you play hard). Very even string to string and you can get tight lows without needing a load of high end.

They're not the same as passives though they work for me very well. I like to use the plain strings a lot in chords under gain and getting those thick while keeping the low end tight and having it all cut is easier for me if I use EMGs, at least in the tuning I use.

I actually think passives feel and can usually sound better, but EMGs better solve the issue of how to translate what I write. They keep the guitar in a certain frequency and dynamic range quite well

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

I like the 81s for low tunings with the tone pots removed. They're a bit more raunchy that way, and they don't clip so easily and have more dynamic range (they can be a bit flat with the tonepots in 9v if you play hard). Very even string to string and you can get tight lows without needing a load of high end.

They're not the same as passives though they work for me very well. I like to use the plain strings a lot in chords under gain and getting those thick while keeping the low end tight and having it all cut is easier for me if I use EMGs, at least in the tuning I use.

I actually think passives feel and can usually sound better, but EMGs better solve the issue of how to translate what I write. They keep the guitar in a certain frequency and dynamic range quite well

pup choice is so personal..
it's as much about how you play as it is your tone needs and amp choices..

for riffing I really like super hot / tight ceramics, but head north of the 7th fret and they get shrill
for soloing a hot wound pup with an alnico 4 is soft and dynamic and sweet sounding, but not defined enough for riffing..

for me the moderately hot alnico 5 is the Goldilocks zone
note though that I have a gentle technique and to not pick extremely hard
but I tune D standard and use 11 gauge so the strings have a lot of mass and are a little tighter than 9's tuned concert..

Drew_TNBD

I use Duncan Distortions, and play in drop-C with 52-10's. I have a fairly dynamic playing technique and I play all over the fretboard. 

But I love these pickups. I used to be a Bareknuckle fanboi, and I might go back at some point... but I just find the Duncan's a bit more instant gratification. Less carving up of the extreme lows and extreme highs required.

guitarfishbay

Drew_TNBD said:

I use Duncan Distortions, and play in drop-C with 52-10's. I have a fairly dynamic playing technique and I play all over the fretboard. 

But I love these pickups. I used to be a Bareknuckle fanboi, and I might go back at some point... but I just find the Duncan's a bit more instant gratification. Less carving up of the extreme lows and extreme highs required.

You do have an exceptionally dark sounding Les Paul though which I think keeps the potentially searing high end of those pickups a bit more in check.  Plus you play lighter than me - the kind of attack I tend to play with brings out the upper mids a lot, which is possibly why I don't always get on with ceramic passives

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I use Duncan Distortions, and play in drop-C with 52-10's. I have a fairly dynamic playing technique and I play all over the fretboard. 

But I love these pickups. I used to be a Bareknuckle fanboi, and I might go back at some point... but I just find the Duncan's a bit more instant gratification. Less carving up of the extreme lows and extreme highs required.

You do have an exceptionally dark sounding Les Paul though which I think keeps the potentially searing high end of those pickups a bit more in check.  Plus you play lighter than me - the kind of attack I tend to play with brings out the upper mids a lot, which is possibly why I don't always get on with ceramic passives

Yeah defo. I tickle those strings a lot, and then when we play a heavy riff I molest them.

PS: Why are we talking in two placez?!

guitarfishbay

A fair point

Clarky

also, thick strings do not vibrate as freely as thinner ones because they are less flexible and so they are not as strong in the extreme hi's..

I used to use Di'M Breed [bridge] and Di'M PAF Pro [neck] on my RG's [alder body / Hybrid 9's tuned concert] playing into a Digitect 2120 / Marshall 8008 power amp / Marshall 4x12 cabs..
worked an absolute treat for my playing style and tone choices 

I switched to Bulldog.. these have a similar voicing to my previous choices but are more focused / tighter sounding..
the Di'M pups by comparison had a little more of a 'smear' to the tone..
this made them a little more forgiving, where my particular Bulldogs expose more..
but when you play well, the Bulldogs reward you in a way the Di'Ms cannot because of the definition..
note though that having the Bulldogs made this way was a deliberate choice on the part of me, Neil [Morgan] and Hayden [Bulldog].. it's a choice that I quickly realised [especially after my first recordings with them] was absolutely spot on..

interestingly.. my unforgiving pups, through an unforgiving VH4 ch3 [a real one] sounds absolutely spectacular..
I remember Doug [Black Machine] raising his eyebrows, nodding and saying 'yeah yeah' through big smiles at the show in Brum one year..
When I saw a guy like him - that I know has such a critical ear - nodding and smiling I knew I was onto a good thing..

Jonathanthomas83

That's interesting, I'm always on the lookout for a modern, tight and defined pickup. I'll have to check the bulldogs out. Right now, I have BKP Cold Sweats (which are great) in my PRS Custom 24...that's my main workhorse and the one I need to be able to tighten up.

Jonathanthomas83

@Clarky are you using the Black Label set?

Clarky

Jonathanthomas83 said:

@Clarky are you using the Black Label set?

the Extremist at the bridge [which I developed with Hayden] and the Hot PAF at the neck

Jonathanthomas83

Cool, will check them out!!

Clarky

Conclusion: The Helix unfortunately cannot meet my needs

However, overall I really do like this unit
The areas where it is strong, it is very strong
The areas where it is weak, it is very weak

unfortunately for me, two of these weakness are in areas that I need this unit to be strong:
- Pitch Shifter
- multi-tap delay

I am genuinely quite disappointed..
for a moment there I though I had a viable solution that would only incur the loss of a few minor things that I can easily live without..

Beexter

@Clarky - would it not be solvable by running some additional effects in the Helix's loops?

I have a Fractal AX8 but still prefer to run an EHX Pitch Fork in its FX loop as I'm not entirely happy with the  pitch shifting on the AX8. That of course, could be user error but using the Pitch Fork also helps free up DSP 

Jonathanthomas83

@Beexter what part if the pitch block do you not get on with? 

peteri

Good point on the loop.

I have a LT - which after an initial struggle with I love.

Two big turners for me:

Adding two pedals in front of the unit - King of Tone and MXR Phase 95.

Never liked the phaser in the Helix and the addition of drive in front (and a good buffer) spot on!

Beexter

To be fair, it's in relation to a specific patch where I also use the synth block and I find the pitch block struggles with tracking whereas the Pitch Fork seems a bit more stable. I also use the Pitch Fork for faux organ sounds. 
I probably could get there with more tweaking (and a better understanding of the pitch block!) but the Pitch Fork provided a quick fix with the added benefit of saving DSP. 

robinbowes

Beexter said:

To be fair, it's in relation to a specific patch where I also use the synth block and I find the pitch block struggles with tracking whereas the Pitch Fork seems a bit more stable. I also use the Pitch Fork for faux organ sounds. 
I probably could get there with more tweaking (and a better understanding of the pitch block!) but the Pitch Fork provided a quick fix with the added benefit of saving DSP. 

I find the Pitch Block weak too. I'm seriously considering adding a rack tray and running a POG2 in a loop for octave down FX and 12-string sounds.

R.

Sporky

Beexter said:

@Clarky - would it not be solvable by running some additional effects in the Helix's loops?

I think that defeats the anti-faff part of the benefit in going Helix.