The Last Jedi spoliers thread

RMJ

'kin bollocks

quarky

goldtop said:

vasselmeyer said:

goldtop said:

Isn't the problem here that SW is not science fiction? If we get nerdy about this, the acceleration due to gravity would have seen those bombs drop at a glacial rate. Instead, for visual effect and plot reasons, the bombs poured out of the bomb-bay as if this was a B52 dropping its payload.

So we get a film full of make-it-up-as-we-go science fantasy. When you're 10, you overlook it and enjoy an adventure, but when you're a grown-up, too much of this nonsense eventually gets distracting.

Exactly. Star Wars is Cowboys and Indians in space. Don't take it seriously, just sit back and enjoy the ride. Very few films in the SF genre stand up to  close inspection of their "science".

That's my problem - there was so much of this "WTF - really?" nonsense that my enjoyment of 'the ride' was frequently interrupted. And it was sold to me as a new version of a ride I've enjoyed before. As a franchise, what has gone before must be developed/respected or else the director undermines the audience's goodwill. Which is what has happened with TLJ.

Had this movie been called Cowboys and Indians in Space, with all-new characters and a standalone story, it'd be fine. In fact, without the SW baggage, it might have been a better movie. But it would have taken a fraction of the box office takings.

Sorry, I don't buy that, it just sounds like entitlement. The directors and writers are allowed to change the Star Wars universe as much as they like. It isn't owned by the fans. I don't know what changes you personally found undermined the SW universe, but some of the others ones I have heard are nonsense.

As examples:
* Complaining that Luke was supposed to be some stoic Jedi master (from someone who has obviously never seen Yoda in ESB)
* Complaining that gravity is not correctly portrayed (even the escape pods in ANH had gravity FFS!)
* Complaining about the furry creatures (as if there were no Ewoks in ROTJ)
* Complining about humour in a SW film (and forgetting Jar-Jar, which is forgivable to be fair). 

Yes, the humour is different in this one, and there is more, but those elements have *always* been there in Star Wars films. 

FarleyUK

quarky said:

* Complaining that Luke was supposed to be some stoic Jedi master (from someone who has obviously never seen Yoda in ESB)
* Complaining that gravity is not correctly portrayed (even the escape pods in ANH had gravity FFS!)
* Complaining about the furry creatures (as if there were no Ewoks in ROTJ)
* Complining about humour in a SW film (and forgetting Jar-Jar, which is forgivable to be fair). 

Yes, the humour is different in this one, and there is more, but those elements have *always* been there in Star Wars films. 

- That feeds into the rehashing of the plot argument though; we'd already seen it before, how about something new?

- The escape pods were fired at great force from the blockade runner, and with no friction to stop them, they carried on going. I'd assume they have an in-built guidance system that automtically targets the nearest hanitable planet (my God, I cannot believe I just wrote that)

- Personally I thought the porgs were OK; much better than the stupid f'ing Gungans.

- Some jokes just seemed a bit too 'on the nose', although that's probably as they've never been attempted in a SW film TBF

goldtop

quarky said:

goldtop said:

vasselmeyer said:

goldtop said:

Isn't the problem here that SW is not science fiction? If we get nerdy about this, the acceleration due to gravity would have seen those bombs drop at a glacial rate. Instead, for visual effect and plot reasons, the bombs poured out of the bomb-bay as if this was a B52 dropping its payload.

So we get a film full of make-it-up-as-we-go science fantasy. When you're 10, you overlook it and enjoy an adventure, but when you're a grown-up, too much of this nonsense eventually gets distracting.

Exactly. Star Wars is Cowboys and Indians in space. Don't take it seriously, just sit back and enjoy the ride. Very few films in the SF genre stand up to  close inspection of their "science".

That's my problem - there was so much of this "WTF - really?" nonsense that my enjoyment of 'the ride' was frequently interrupted. And it was sold to me as a new version of a ride I've enjoyed before. As a franchise, what has gone before must be developed/respected or else the director undermines the audience's goodwill. Which is what has happened with TLJ.

Had this movie been called Cowboys and Indians in Space, with all-new characters and a standalone story, it'd be fine. In fact, without the SW baggage, it might have been a better movie. But it would have taken a fraction of the box office takings.

Sorry, I don't buy that, it just sounds like entitlement. The directors and writers are allowed to change the Star Wars universe as much as they like. It isn't owned by the fans. I don't know what changes you personally found undermined the SW universe, but some of the others ones I have heard are nonsense. 

Any franchise is based upon using existing goodwill to market new products to customers. The customer don't own anything except for bums-on-seats, and that's why the goodwill of customers is bankable. Accountants put numbers on it when IP is bought and sold.

If the reaction of a lot of SW fans (dozens here and literally thousands elsewhere) hasn't shown you that a significant number consider their goodwill has been taken for granted by Johnson/Disney, you may be in for a bit of a shock. (FWIW, Johnson reckons it's only 10% of people that are so unhappy.)

I expect that before the release of SW9, there'll be some Disney attempt at rapprochement with fans alienated by TLJ.

ICBM

I wasn't alienated by it, and I will definitely see Return Of The New Jedi or whatever it's going to be called when it comes out, but I felt this one was really wearing things very thin in places and it just wasn't as good as it could quite easily have been even given the same basic structure.

In fact, it makes me want to go back and watch the Prequels again and see if they are really as bad as I remember... or in fact if they're worse than these two, which I'm no longer quite sure of having thought about it .

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

In fact, it makes me want to go back and watch the Prequels again and see if they are really as bad as I remember... or in fact if they're worse than these two, which I'm no longer quite sure of having thought about it .

They're fucking bollocks.

vasselmeyer

ICBM said:

In fact, it makes me want to go back and watch the Prequels again and see if they are really as bad as I remember... or in fact if they're worse than these two, which I'm no longer quite sure of having thought about it .

Don't...

I was a SW baby, queued around the block when I was 9 to see A New Hope and then followed up with Empire and Return.  When the prequels were announced I was so excited. Then I saw the Phantom Menace at the cinema and I was sickened at what a travesty it was and never watched episodes 2 and 3.

Last month, I thought I'd finally watch 2 and 3, just for completeness. I got about 45 minutes into 2 and realised I was wasting my life watching it. What a pile of shit. I'll never bother watching the rest of it or 3.

Philly_Q

I very nearly walked out of the cinema 10 minutes into Revenge of the Sith.  And I'm someone who's sat through all sorts of dubious shite at the London Film Festival when the audience are leaving in droves (not quite the same thing, I grant you).

Glad I stayed, though - I would've missed that bad-computer-game river of lava at the end and that laugh-out-loud moment when we find out the clones have murdered the younglings....

not_the_dj

For all it’s flaws Last Jedi is way way better than the prequels. 

ICBM

I admit I've watched The Phantom Menace properly and thought it was shit, and watched the other two in a half-hearted sort of way and thought they were shit, but...







Maybe I won't then . I kind of want to just in case we're all wrong! I might skip TPM though, I've seen that twice and didn't think it was any better the second time.

beed84

quarky said:

goldtop said:

vasselmeyer said:

goldtop said:

Isn't the problem here that SW is not science fiction? If we get nerdy about this, the acceleration due to gravity would have seen those bombs drop at a glacial rate. Instead, for visual effect and plot reasons, the bombs poured out of the bomb-bay as if this was a B52 dropping its payload.

So we get a film full of make-it-up-as-we-go science fantasy. When you're 10, you overlook it and enjoy an adventure, but when you're a grown-up, too much of this nonsense eventually gets distracting.

Exactly. Star Wars is Cowboys and Indians in space. Don't take it seriously, just sit back and enjoy the ride. Very few films in the SF genre stand up to  close inspection of their "science".

That's my problem - there was so much of this "WTF - really?" nonsense that my enjoyment of 'the ride' was frequently interrupted. And it was sold to me as a new version of a ride I've enjoyed before. As a franchise, what has gone before must be developed/respected or else the director undermines the audience's goodwill. Which is what has happened with TLJ.

Had this movie been called Cowboys and Indians in Space, with all-new characters and a standalone story, it'd be fine. In fact, without the SW baggage, it might have been a better movie. But it would have taken a fraction of the box office takings.

Sorry, I don't buy that, it just sounds like entitlement. The directors and writers are allowed to change the Star Wars universe as much as they like. It isn't owned by the fans. I don't know what changes you personally found undermined the SW universe, but some of the others ones I have heard are nonsense.

As examples:
* Complaining that Luke was supposed to be some stoic Jedi master (from someone who has obviously never seen Yoda in ESB)
* Complaining that gravity is not correctly portrayed (even the escape pods in ANH had gravity FFS!)
* Complaining about the furry creatures (as if there were no Ewoks in ROTJ)
* Complining about humour in a SW film (and forgetting Jar-Jar, which is forgivable to be fair). 

Yes, the humour is different in this one, and there is more, but those elements have *always* been there in Star Wars films. 

To some extent I agree with you and the examples you've provided. It's a sci-fi film, it's not real, we should suspend belief etc etc. However, Star Wars is a saga that is not only very dear to many, but also influential in the sense that it borrows from Taoist philosophy (The Force = The Way) and conveys such meaningfulness via a hero's journey format. At least that's my view of it. So, when Rian Johnson struts in and essentially trolls the entire fanbase just to be a bit 'different', then he's going to piss off a lot of people and mar the image of what Star Wars is to them. 

munckee

vasselmeyer said:

ICBM said:

In fact, it makes me want to go back and watch the Prequels again and see if they are really as bad as I remember... or in fact if they're worse than these two, which I'm no longer quite sure of having thought about it .

Don't...

I was a SW baby, queued around the block when I was 9 to see A New Hope and then followed up with Empire and Return.  When the prequels were announced I was so excited. Then I saw the Phantom Menace at the cinema and I was sickened at what a travesty it was and never watched episodes 2 and 3.

Last month, I thought I'd finally watch 2 and 3, just for completeness. I got about 45 minutes into 2 and realised I was wasting my life watching it. What a pile of shit. I'll never bother watching the rest of it or 3.

Attack of the clones is equally as shit as phantom menace (except for darth maul obviously) episode 3 is quite entertaining as a film goes and probably the darkest other than rogue one.  Its a bit cartoon like special effects wise though.

In terms of order from best to worst my list would be:

Rogue One
Empire
1st half of ROTJ
A New Hope
The Last Jedi
Revenge of the Sith - Force Awakens
2nd half of ROTJ
The other 2...

darthed1981

Disney crying in their champagne no doubt

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/star-wars-last-jedi/star-wars-last-jedi-makes-1-billion-box-office/

It's the beginning of the end for the franchise that 1 billion dollars.

When will Disney accept that this critically loved, incredibly profitable film frustrated some loud people on the Internet, and do what they are told for once god damn it!

90% of people were satisfied and 10% weren't, a rating that would basically allow a politician to change their job title to "God of you stupid idiots" without much negative press, don't they realise?  Those 10% are the important 10%!!!  They are quite willing to write scripts to log negative user reviews on Rotten Tomatoes then brag about it online because they think a film is worth that amount of time!  

If they don't realise this, and make the new film EXACTLY to my personal specification, and the specification of ALL the entitled keyboard mashing mouth breathers of the Internet, I might only see the next one twice!!

This film raped my childhood, even though there were no Star wars films released during my childhood and I just watched them on video!

TLJ is even worse than the prequels, it's worse than global warming, it's worse than North Korea, I'm not sure even the Boss Katana could fix TLJ!

RMJ

Moominpapa

Just saw it today. Some good parts: the Rey/Kylo/Snoke scene and Luke's fakeout appearance on Crait were well done. Some bits that could have been cut our without impacting the storyline at all (like the whole casino side-trip), and some horribly misjudged bits : Leia Poppins in space was pretty dire.  Moderately enjoyable, but would have been better with 40 mins edited out and a script that didn't sound like it was written by a computer program.

Musicman20

I'm probably on my own in thinking Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith are fantastic. I love the opening 20 mins in Revenge of the Sith - goosebumps with that HUGE space battle.

english_bob

I can't get my head around all the people complaining about the physics of Star Wars universe spaceflight.

In forty years Star Wars has never attempted to do anything even vaguely realistic with space scenes, but suddenly the world seems to have a big fucking problem with it. I don't get why it suddenly matters so much to people. 

stickyfiddle

english_bob said:

I can't get my head around all the people complaining about the physics of Star Wars universe spaceflight.

In forty years Star Wars has never attempted to do anything even vaguely realistic with space scenes, but suddenly the world seems to have a big fucking problem with it. I don't get why it suddenly matters so much to people. 

It's because it lets fanboys feel like they're clever on the internet. 

crunchman

Saw it last night.  Enjoyed it.

You do have to suspend your disbelief, but that Leia flying in a vacuum was taking it too far.

By killing off Snokes and Luke, they have left the third one a lot less predictable.

Saw speculation today about an Obi Wan Kenobi spin off:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-ewan-mcgregor-bread-hair-golden-globes-obi-wan-kenobi-return-a8147706.html

FarleyUK

crunchman said:

Saw it last night.  Enjoyed it.

You do have to suspend your disbelief, but that Leia flying in a vacuum was taking it too far.

By killing off Snokes and Luke, they have left the third one a lot less predictable.

Saw speculation today about an Obi Wan Kenobi spin off:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-ewan-mcgregor-bread-hair-golden-globes-obi-wan-kenobi-return-a8147706.html

God I hope not. He cannot act for toffee, and totally ruined Obi-Wan for me personally.