The Last Jedi spoliers thread

Philly_Q

FarleyUK said:

crunchman said:

Saw it last night.  Enjoyed it.

You do have to suspend your disbelief, but that Leia flying in a vacuum was taking it too far.

By killing off Snokes and Luke, they have left the third one a lot less predictable.

Saw speculation today about an Obi Wan Kenobi spin off:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-ewan-mcgregor-bread-hair-golden-globes-obi-wan-kenobi-return-a8147706.html

God I hope not. He cannot act for toffee, and totally ruined Obi-Wan for me personally.

Great, a whole film of him doing his dodgy Alec Guinness impersonation.

quarky

Yeah, not sure I am looking forward to an Obi Wan movie, but hey, we will see. 

Good article here
http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/movies/star-wars/54386/star-wars-a-brief-history-of-fan-anger-and-frustration

People are of course allowed to not like it, but the article raises some interesting points. Well, as someone who loved ROTJ too, I think so anyway!

EricTheWeary

english_bob said:

I can't get my head around all the people complaining about the physics of Star Wars universe spaceflight.

In forty years Star Wars has never attempted to do anything even vaguely realistic with space scenes, but suddenly the world seems to have a big fucking problem with it. I don't get why it suddenly matters so much to people. 

I’ve given a Wiz for that . The only thing that crossed my mind during the bombing scene ( as I wasn’t bright enough to wonder what’s happened to gravity) is that the bombardier woman was exposed to open space ( as she was in an opened bomb bay) and therefore exposed to whatever that would do to you ( freeze, explode, whatever it is). 
Bit like the Leia Poppins bit - wouldn’t she at least have been terribly scarred after freezing up in space? 
Those horsey things outside the casino bugged me quite a lot only because they appeared to have escaped out of Harry Potter more than the Star Wars universe. Although I quite liked the sparkly dogs. 
Oh, other people have mentioned using lightspeed for the cruiser(?) to ram the First Order ship - if that was always possible then why didn’t she just do it straight away? Great war hero preparing to sacrifice herself, knows how to control a huge space ship entirely by herself yet also a bit slow on the uptake. 

Perhaps if it was a better movie we’d all be less bothered. 

Philly_Q

EricTheWeary said:
Although I quite liked the sparkly dogs. 

The sparkly dogs - or foxes? - were great, they're not getting enough attention. Everyone keeps going on about those bloody puffin things.

EricTheWeary

Philly_Q said:

EricTheWeary said:
Although I quite liked the sparkly dogs. 

The sparkly dogs - or foxes? - were great, they're not getting enough attention. Everyone keeps going on about those bloody puffin things.

I saw the puffin things and thought ‘oh merchandising opportunity.’ I’d like a sparkly dog/ fox - I’d look the biz walking that over the park. 

stickyfiddle

EricTheWeary said:

Philly_Q said:

EricTheWeary said:
Although I quite liked the sparkly dogs. 

The sparkly dogs - or foxes? - were great, they're not getting enough attention. Everyone keeps going on about those bloody puffin things.

I saw the puffin things and thought ‘oh merchandising opportunity.’ I’d like a sparkly dog/ fox - I’d look the biz walking that over the park. 

Apparently the Porgs were put in partly because they’re cute but mostly because they couldn’t get any shots without actual puffins getting in the way, so the CGI-d over them with Porgs instead...

ICBM

EricTheWeary said:

Oh, other people have mentioned using lightspeed for the cruiser(?) to ram the First Order ship - if that was always possible then why didn’t she just do it straight away?

 Because in the “physics” of this, the ramming would only work over a short distance when accelerating to lightspeed. Once it’s reached lightspeed, the ship simply jumps to its destination, so it wouldn’t do any damage to anything on the way.

So she had to wait until the First Order ship had nearly caught up with them, without it being obvious that’s what she was going to do.

EricTheWeary said:

Perhaps if it was a better movie we’d all be less bothered. 

I think this is true - it’s just about suspension of disbelief, either in real physics or a set of ‘rules’. If there isn’t a strong enough plot otherwise, you tend to notice the small stuff more.

I don’t remember noticing or hearing any of this about Rogue One, and there are bound to be similar issues.

stickyfiddle

ICBM said:

EricTheWeary said:

Oh, other people have mentioned using lightspeed for the cruiser(?) to ram the First Order ship - if that was always possible then why didn’t she just do it straight away?

 Because in the “physics” of this, the ramming would only work over a short distance when accelerating to lightspeed. Once it’s reached lightspeed, the ship simply jumps to its destination, so it wouldn’t do any damage to anything on the way.

So she had to wait until the First Order ship had nearly caught up with them, without it being obvious that’s what she was going to do.

Are you sure? Isn’t there a whole “having to plot a course so we don’t hyperspace throughout Star” in the originals..?

ICBM

No, I’m not sure! Just something I read elsewhere...

not_the_dj

“Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops,without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova”

stickyfiddle

not_the_dj said:

“Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops,without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova”

Ezzackerly  

ICBM

That’s true, but if you want to try to square that with real physics it would be that you don’t want to pass through an extreme gravitational distortion, rather than actually hitting something.

I think there’s a bit in the originals where they go to lightspeed while something appears to be in the way, or come out of it having apparently passed through something, but I can’t remember exactly when.

Consistency would be too much to expect anyway .

stickyfiddle

But if you're talking modern concepts of FTL travel, then your hyperdrive would be bending spacetime to put your start and your destination together, which means nothing can be "in the way" because your journey becomes instantaneous, which isn't what happens in SW. 

Anyhoo, I still enjoyed TLJ, but am nervous that Star Wars will become as commoditised as the Marvel movies, where they're all good, but never truly great.

DesVegas

My understanding is lightspeed is in sub space which has different properties to normal space. Exiting from subspace is the tricky part.

darthed1981

DesVegas said:

My understanding is lightspeed is in sub space which has different properties to normal space. Exiting from subspace is the tricky part.

I understand the capabilities of the technology in the SW universe are deliberately kept vague, to allow for future story possibilities (like the incredibly cool suicide run in TLJ).

After all, it's all bollocks really, but it's about storytelling, not real physics.  Stephen Hawking is an enormous Star Trek fan, and while you will find acres of Internet devoted to what trek gets wrong about physics, his comment visiting the set of TNG?

As he was wheeled past the warp core he said "I'm working on that..."

ICBM

Well, I decided to ignore all your advice and watch the prequels again, since one of my kids had never seen them and wanted to...

Yes, they're shit. Although it has to be said, in quite an epically shit way. They're oddly more like a spin-off subseries made by someone else with a fairly low budget, than they are like the official George Lucas franchise movies they really are.

The standard of CGI in all of them is terrible, with The Phantom Menace probably the least badly affected because there's less of it. Attack Of The Clones is utterly dire, it looks like a bad computer game, and Revenge Of The Sith isn't much better - the big battle at the beginning is awful, and General Grievous is ridiculous.

The acting and dialogue is laughable - Hayden Christensen's in particular, although none of them come over well... not even Christopher Lee and Samuel L. Jackson can save AOTC. Ewan McGregor's Alec Guinness impersonation is less convincing and more annoying than I remembered, and Ian McDiarmid is better.

But the plot isn't that bad, overall - creaky in places, and there's far too much over-use of the same handful of minor characters (particularly C3P0 and R2D2) and locations. There's far too little made of Anakin's transition into Vader - which surely was the whole point of the series? The part where the burned human Vader becomes the familiar armour-suited cyborg is almost skipped through - it's like a rambling shaggy-dog story with a throwaway punchline that falls flat.

And R2D2 can fly... just no.

So yes, TFA and TLJ are better despite their issues.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

That’s true, but if you want to try to square that with real physics it would be that you don’t want to pass through an extreme gravitational distortion, rather than actually hitting something.

I think there’s a bit in the originals where they go to lightspeed while something appears to be in the way, or come out of it having apparently passed through something, but I can’t remember exactly when.

Consistency would be too much to expect anyway .

You mean aside from the fact that in a civilisation capable of building FTL-capable drive systems (and droids!), it's a reasonably sure bet that they'd also have vaguely-intelligent autopilot capable of plotting a course through another ship without the need for human intervention?

Anyway, I just saw it, and frankly...the whole film just felt incredibly unconvincing. Poor storytelling, atrocious acting, terrible treatment of the original mythology...yep, it's all in there.

In fact, of all the films made since the original trilogy, Rogue One is the only one which made me sit up and take notice.

EDIT: On the bright side, the effects were pretty good.

BigBearKris

Erhm... I'm bit late to the party and have just seen the movie last night .

I've read part of this thread and heard a fair bit from my mates how shit it is. 

My expectations therefore were really low - and it was a good thing as the movie then became quite watchable. 

I'm not going to add anything new - I agree with most of the things said above - Leia was ridiculous, casino scenes were too long, didn't really contribute to the story and just felt like - "we'll send the black guy on the mission to keep him busy". Luke was ok - I expected the worst but he came out all right- plotwise and Mark as an actor. 
I like Ray and Kylo Ren better than in previous movie but I didn't like them at all to begin with to it's an improvement but Kylo is still too much of a whiny ass ... when the original trilogy came out Vader was causing some serious fear. These baddies are a joke in comparison .
overall - I didn't expect much but I watched the whole thing and didn't fall asleep. 
6/10 altogether, 5/10 as a SW movie.

Heartfeltdawn

BigBearKris said:

I like Ray and Kylo Ren better than in previous movie but I didn't like them at all to begin with to it's an improvement but Kylo is still too much of a whiny ass ... when the original trilogy came out Vader was causing some serious fear. These baddies are a joke in comparison .
overall - I didn't expect much but I watched the whole thing and didn't fall asleep. 
6/10 altogether, 5/10 as a SW movie.

The final minutes of Vader in Rogue One is better than all of the minutes of Ren in two movies. 

BigBearKris

Heartfeltdawn said:

BigBearKris said:

I like Ray and Kylo Ren better than in previous movie but I didn't like them at all to begin with to it's an improvement but Kylo is still too much of a whiny ass ... when the original trilogy came out Vader was causing some serious fear. These baddies are a joke in comparison .
overall - I didn't expect much but I watched the whole thing and didn't fall asleep. 
6/10 altogether, 5/10 as a SW movie.

The final minutes of Vader in Rogue One is better than all of the minutes of Ren in two movies. 

Times 10! Agreed.