Florida shooting ...

Ravenous

VimFuego said:

p90fool said:

There have been some heroic acts by teachers attempting to protect their pupils from nutters, but expecting Miss Jones from Home Economics to get involved in a gun battle?

If anyone needs shooting it's their fucking stupid president. 

dear mr cia person, the above comment is not indicative of how we all feel on the fretboard. Many of us are supporters of your fine and upstanding president. Please don't call a drone strike on us.

JVOOYR

Teetonetal

Haych said:

What happens when a teacher with the responsibility to protect kids fails to do just that? What if, under pressure, he/she can’t take a life, can’t pull the trigger, or isn’t in the right place when the shooter is raining bullets in another classroom?

They’ll probably be persecuted by everyone who then holds them responsible for loss of life that could have been prevented. 

I’d also imagine the nightmare scenario for any teacher given that responsibility would be accidentally taking the life of an innocent while trying to protect the innocent. Not that I know from experience but I imagine things happen fast in a gun fight and it would take only one stray bullet in the wrong direction or through a stud wall to end an innocent life. 

I wouldn’t want that responsibility on any level, thanks. 

This is an awful idea:

Teacher shoots, misses, hits other pupil
Teacher shoots, kills, then has psychological problems from taking a life
Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher, teacher has psychological problems for lives taken, they could have saved
Teacher goes mad and shoots pupils
Pupils Over power teacher and shoot teacher.

Teachers are there to educate, the state is there to protect it's citizens from violent crime. Teachers are not meant to be the last line of defense against gun crime.

fields5069

Donald done a think! Donald done a think!

Octafish

Teetonetal said:

Haych said:

What happens when a teacher with the responsibility to protect kids fails to do just that? What if, under pressure, he/she can’t take a life, can’t pull the trigger, or isn’t in the right place when the shooter is raining bullets in another classroom?

They’ll probably be persecuted by everyone who then holds them responsible for loss of life that could have been prevented. 

I’d also imagine the nightmare scenario for any teacher given that responsibility would be accidentally taking the life of an innocent while trying to protect the innocent. Not that I know from experience but I imagine things happen fast in a gun fight and it would take only one stray bullet in the wrong direction or through a stud wall to end an innocent life. 

I wouldn’t want that responsibility on any level, thanks. 

This is an awful idea:

Teacher shoots, misses, hits other pupil
Teacher shoots, kills, then has psychological problems from taking a life
Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher, teacher has psychological problems for lives taken, they could have saved
Teacher goes mad and shoots pupils
Pupils Over power teacher and shoot teacher.

Teachers are there to educate, the state is there to protect it's citizens from violent crime. Teachers are not meant to be the last line of defense against gun crime.

Don't forget this is the US so more like... Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher and sue teacher for $10 million.

Donald is clearly a very special kind of fucknut!

Teetonetal

Octafish said:

Teetonetal said:

Haych said:

What happens when a teacher with the responsibility to protect kids fails to do just that? What if, under pressure, he/she can’t take a life, can’t pull the trigger, or isn’t in the right place when the shooter is raining bullets in another classroom?

They’ll probably be persecuted by everyone who then holds them responsible for loss of life that could have been prevented. 

I’d also imagine the nightmare scenario for any teacher given that responsibility would be accidentally taking the life of an innocent while trying to protect the innocent. Not that I know from experience but I imagine things happen fast in a gun fight and it would take only one stray bullet in the wrong direction or through a stud wall to end an innocent life. 

I wouldn’t want that responsibility on any level, thanks. 

This is an awful idea:

Teacher shoots, misses, hits other pupil
Teacher shoots, kills, then has psychological problems from taking a life
Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher, teacher has psychological problems for lives taken, they could have saved
Teacher goes mad and shoots pupils
Pupils Over power teacher and shoot teacher.

Teachers are there to educate, the state is there to protect it's citizens from violent crime. Teachers are not meant to be the last line of defense against gun crime.

Don't forget this is the US so more like... Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher and sue teacher for $10 million.

Donald is clearly a very special kind of fucknut!

Totally. I just can't even get my head around the fact that someone in a position of power is mooting that as an answer to the problem. Feels like a very slippery slope.

Philly_Q

Teetonetal said:

This is an awful idea:

Teacher shoots, misses, hits other pupil
Teacher shoots, kills, then has psychological problems from taking a life
Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher, teacher has psychological problems for lives taken, they could have saved
Teacher goes mad and shoots pupils
Pupils Over power teacher and shoot teacher.

Plus in at least two of those scenarios the parents, or someone, would sue the teacher for failing to protect their kids.

I can even imagine a shooter's family suing a teacher for using excessive force.  This is America.

(Edit: Octafish beat me to it!)

Axe_meister

Nutjob enters room with gun, fires and misses, teacher responds and disables nutjob. Pupil traumatized after seeing teacher shoot somebody. Teacher is sued. 

digitalscream

Teetonetal said:

Teacher shoots, misses, hits other pupil
Teacher shoots, kills, then has psychological problems from taking a life
Teacher doesn't shoot - parents blame teacher, teacher has psychological problems for lives taken, they could have saved
Teacher goes mad and shoots pupils
Pupils Over power teacher and shoot teacher.

You'll also note that every single one of those results in the end of the teacher's career, not just the "teacher goes mad" one.

Philly_Q

VimFuego

so, to sum up this thread, we all think this about the worst idea since the square wheel, correct?

the yanks are bound to enact it. 

JasonRice666

As an student in England, I can safely say that I feel safe every day. We have no metal detectors upon entry, we have no security on site, we have a gate and that’s it. The last shooting was in ‘98 and all rifles and handguns were banned. Only shotguns are legal WITH a reason, such as owning a farm or cattle. We haven’t had a shooting since.

On the other hand, knife crime is at an all time high, especially among teenagers. So one could argue that if it’s not guns it’s knives.

However personally I beleive that America needs to step up and make the change for the better of their society.

joeyowen

Can I add some input, as a teacher?  As a lecturer that spends a lot of time trying to help students achieve their goal, for a living.
...
(Actually, I typed a lot and deleted it.  This is a bit too searchable, not that it was offensive, I'm just being cautious.)

Basically this.  I'm here to teach, mentor, guide, support etc... and yes, make a living.  I am here to supervise, check welfare, help etc...  Of course.  Am I here to protect?  To an extent yes.  Does that extent cover use of weapons?  No. Nope nope nope nope nope.  

Anyone else watch the Futurama episode where the Earth stood stupid?  the lines SEND MORE TRAINS to solve train crashes?  I see some similarities. 

Sporky

stickyfiddle said:

 Jesus wept (pretty sure he wouldn't have been a Republican..)

I'm not as widely travelled as some people here, but I still know not to say that in at least 30 states of the US.

VimFuego

Sporky said:

stickyfiddle said:

 Jesus wept (pretty sure he wouldn't have been a Republican..)

I'm not as widely travelled as some people here, but I still know not to say that in at least 30 states of the US.

yeah, but you can't tell me you'd not be tempted. I know I would.

digitalscream

In terms of the politics of this (as opposed to the tragedy, which remains such), there's one positive - while America's spending all of its time focusing on their inward stupidity that they're unable to devote much in the way of resources toward spreading their unique brand of stupid around the globe.

stickyfiddle

Sporky said:

stickyfiddle said:

 Jesus wept (pretty sure he wouldn't have been a Republican..)

I'm not as widely travelled as some people here, but I still know not to say that in at least 30 states of the US.

Hey, we're going for a road trip though at least 4 of them in April...! I shall *not* be talking politics whenever possible..!

FX_Munkee

stickyfiddle said:

Sporky said:

stickyfiddle said:

 Jesus wept (pretty sure he wouldn't have been a Republican..)

I'm not as widely travelled as some people here, but I still know not to say that in at least 30 states of the US.

Hey, we're going for a road trip though at least 4 of them in April...! I shall *not* be talking politics whenever possible..!

Just in case, for reference:-

Bucket

Guys I know it sounds crazy, but I now want to punch Wayne LaPierre from the NRA in the throat even more than I do Trump.

What an utterly amoral, bloodsucking excuse for a man. Lowlife vermin. I hope one of his AR15-toting mates turns the fucking rifle on him when there's no "good guy with a gun" around to save him.

crunchman

JasonRice666 said:

As an student in England, I can safely say that I feel safe every day. We have no metal detectors upon entry, we have no security on site, we have a gate and that’s it. The last shooting was in ‘98 and all rifles and handguns were banned. Only shotguns are legal WITH a reason, such as owning a farm or cattle. We haven’t had a shooting since.

On the other hand, knife crime is at an all time high, especially among teenagers. So one could argue that if it’s not guns it’s knives.

However personally I beleive that America needs to step up and make the change for the better of their society.

Rifles aren't banned.  A lot of people use them for hunting.

The semi automatic type that was used in Florida is banned though.

Heartfeltdawn

Bucket said:

Guys I know it sounds crazy, but I now want to punch Wayne LaPierre from the NRA in the throat even more than I do Trump.

What an utterly amoral, bloodsucking excuse for a man. Lowlife vermin. I hope one of his AR15-toting mates turns the fucking rifle on him when there's no "good guy with a gun" around to save him.

If there truly is a God out there, then Wayne LaPierre will be caught by law enforcement officers in some weird sex cult ceremony involving donkeys. And he'll be receiving.