Seen the new PRS ad?

Philly_Q

Strat54 said:

Yeah yeah, you just like disputing in general...I get it the picture. Just humour me and watch this Instagram 'live' video where he discusses refitting the original neck and why (its the second guitar he shows)....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHHLM4kdWvA

...and report back

Yeah yeah, you just wanted to subject me to nine minutes of irritating distorted background noise...

The teddy bear analogy he uses himself is probably about right - it may look the same and feel the same, but it can never be "the same".  He says he hated it, it made him sad, it bummed him out.  But that doesn't mean Fender "failed miserably", it's all in his own mind.  You just can't replace the irreplaceable element, the sentimental attachment.

I don't want to argue about this all night.  I don't follow anyone on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or Whizzbang or Snapdragon or whatever the hell they're called, I don't know how much he's had to say about this all over the internet.  But I've read and heard nothing to convince me that he left Fender because they "couldn't" replace the neck on his black Strat.

Let's just agree to disagree.

guitarblaster

Whilst it's true he's said he's had multiple necks for the black1 guitar, he's never said that's why he ended his Fender endorsement. 

Garthy

It sort of reminds me of the Bender Distortocaster.

Strat54

guitarblaster said:

Whilst it's true he's said he's had multiple necks for the black1 guitar, he's never said that's why he ended his Fender endorsement. 

You know when they sent him the guitar in the first place  Cruz hadn't wired the thing up right and it sounded like shit! Nice one Fender. That's not hearsay btw.

darcym

where in any of that instagram feed does he even suggest anything along the lines of "Fender couldn't make me a neck, so I've fell out with them" he just says the replacement didn't feel right compared to the one he's worn in and lived with for the past 10 years. There is nothing to suggest that had any impact on his relationship with Fender. 

darcym

Strat54 said:

guitarblaster said:

Whilst it's true he's said he's had multiple necks for the black1 guitar, he's never said that's why he ended his Fender endorsement. 

You know when they sent him the guitar in the first place  Cruz hadn't wired the thing up right and it sounded like shit! Nice one Fender. That's not hearsay btw.

That is hearsay - John Cruz did an interview (which is on youtube) at a guitar shop custom shop roadshow where he says, the guitar was wired spot on when it left him, and that "Johns tech messing with a dummy coil probably damaged it" (I"m paraphrasing), but yes, it is hearsay and disputed by the man who made the guitar

darcym

watch the whole thing (it's interesting in general) but 1:25 is where he starts the discussion about it

Strat54

darcym said:

Strat54 said:

guitarblaster said:

Whilst it's true he's said he's had multiple necks for the black1 guitar, he's never said that's why he ended his Fender endorsement. 

You know when they sent him the guitar in the first place  Cruz hadn't wired the thing up right and it sounded like shit! Nice one Fender. That's not hearsay btw.

That is hearsay - John Cruz did an interview (which is on youtube) at a guitar shop custom shop roadshow where he says, the guitar was wired spot on when it left him, and that "Johns tech messing with a dummy coil probably damaged it" (I"m paraphrasing), but yes, it is hearsay and disputed by the man who made the guitar

John talking about the wiring issue to Custom Shop manager Mike Eldred;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElCa5xaay5Y 

Watched the Cruz interview and wow...he doesn't believe Mayer and then he calls Rene Martinez the world most respected tech out for messing it up. Martinez was SRV's tech. So who do you believe? 

Mayer's unhappiness with Fender was posted on his Twitter page back in 2014. Sadly when he went through his anti-social network phase he closed his Twitter account and never reopened it so the info was lost. 

stickyfiddle

I think it's entirely plausible that the black strat was fine when it left Fender but had a less-than-perfect solder joint which came apart in transit. 

I can also completely understand how Mayer felt about the neck change "teddy bear" thing. The new neck may have been notionally the same carve, dimensions, frets etc but not actually be quite the same once attached to the body, and him knowing it was different won't have helped, after playing the original every day for a decade or whatever.

My understanding re the Fender relationship was that Mike Eldred left the custom shop and he was JM's #1 guy, which meant sticking with Fender became less attractive to Mayer. God knows it's not like he *needs* another Strat

darcym

you're being a little blind here, you're saying "Rene Martinez one of the worlds most respected techs" - totally fair, however, John Cruz, master builder and who built the guitar and spent weeks playing it before sending it out.

Which seems the most realistic option

John Cruz spent weeks playing it / testing it before sending it out, and never checked the ground and didn't notice it wasn't wired up during testing, yet Mayer noticed in the second he took it out, but Cruz still sent it out to a huge artist, faulty

John Cruz sent it out totally fine and working, and either something worked loose in transit, or when John Mayer got the guitar, he asked his Rene to put a dummy coil on it / mess around with it and snagged the wire / didn't finish the job before John got hold of it. (This is where its a little tricky as in one interview (the black1 DVD) John says he got the guitar from the fedex guy, opened it, it wasn't working so put it in the freezer - (this seems unlikely behaviour for anyone, you get a broken guitar and put it in the freezer, rather than either pickup the phone and ask what's going on, or have someone look at it, or even look at it yourself), but in another interview he states that he wanted a dummy coil on it because Stevie's did, but when the coil was on he didn't like it so took it off (I'm paraphrasing). 

Both situations are possible, and no-one will will really know as John Mayer will look back with story telling eyes of putting the guitar in the freezer and a magic strat coming out, John Cruz will look back with a certain level of professional pride and reputation to defend about his work not being up to spec, but it seems highly unlikely to me that a master builder would send any guitar out of the shop without noticing the ground wasn't wired up after playing it, let alone to a major artist. 

Mayer didn't post a huge amount on twitter about splitting from Fender, a few comments such as "Fender, not the company it once was" but certainly nothing to suggest extreme dissatisfaction or incompetence, he's been especially tight lipped about his break with Fender in interviews, and just focusses on the story of 'it's the time for something new'.

You seem to be talking as if you know for a fact what happened eg: stating things are fact, when there is clearly a dispute there as you can see from the video, and making some pretty hard assumptions that "john thought Fender where incompetent" based on remakes such as "the neck just wasn't the same" I don't think you're anywhere near the mark on any of this.

My personal view, based on a few side stories such as around the Battle Studies time John was working with Musicman on a new "signature" style guitar for himself and maybe production run that never got out of the prototype stage and ended around the time of mid-born and raised life cycle when the PRS work started, I believe 25 prototypes where made, and Johns public frustration with the two rock ownership and subsequent dropping of two rock from his usage, is that Fender A&R just wasn't what he wanted and expected any more after the belt tightening in 2014. 

He likes limited numbers of things, maybe they wouldn't end the production run on his strat, maybe they wouldn't give him the margin on the strat, maybe he wanted a new run on his strat with new colours but they didn't see the value, he did because he knew his brand was strong at the time, but who knows, unless he ever speaks about it publicly and clearly it's all just guess work.

Strat54

Mayers Twitter announcement said.......

https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/c_scale,w_480/v1413553003/johnmayertweet1_oalfge.jpg

Strat54

This shows his sentiments too....

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6FW4ASI_A-4J:https://twitter.com/johnmayer/status/445771194696876032%3Flang%3Den+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

not_the_dj

Well this is better than eastenders. 

bacchanalian

Could he not have used one of the 83 that John Cruz built? Surely one of those would have been OK. Others are paying 20k for them.

ICBM

Given the complete mess I’ve just found inside a Custom Shop Telecaster - no idea who built it, but it was clearly original - I don’t find faulty wiring from the factory at all unbelievable. Worse than a typical Chinese Squier - far too much loose and haphazard wiring stuffed in, and poorly soldered.

Kebabkid

not_the_dj said:

Well this is better than eastenders. 

Bam bam bam
Babba babba bam bam
To be continuum....

darcym

@Strat54 ; exactly, the two examples you have just posted are because he's not happy with the company, not the guitars, the quality of the guitars or the workmanship, it's the business he's angry with, nothing to do with Fender not being able to service him a new neck, or anything like that, the business model / A&R is where he is showing displeasure there. 

Rocker

Always fascinating what annoys guitar players. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Buy something else instead. 

And before commenting on it, has anyone here actually played one?

darcym

Rocker said:

Always fascinating what annoys guitar players. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Buy something else instead. 

And before commenting on it, has anyone here actually played one?

totally sensible, don't like it, don't open your wallet, if enough people don't like it and it doesn't sell, it will stop existing.

I've got an appointment to try one once in stock, I'm curious, and I do like a 7.25 board. 

Strat54

darcym said:

@Strat54 ; exactly, the two examples you have just posted are because he's not happy with the company, not the guitars, the quality of the guitars or the workmanship, it's the business he's angry with, nothing to do with Fender not being able to service him a new neck, or anything like that, the business model / A&R is where he is showing displeasure there. 

Yes, I believe it to be a combination of all the factors mentioned....and the guitar lol. Are you a big Mayer fan by any chance? Had the pleasure of spending an hour with him a few years back whilst travelling, we chatted guitars and watches. He saw I was reading Fretboard Journal and I hadn't noticed him to be honest, he just came across and sat down and started chatting, nice guy. No one else there just the two of us with some time to kill. I never let on I was a fan, best not to it always works out better. I guess he assumed I knew who he was, who knows. He wasn't the guy you sometimes see waffling on camera either, it wasn't all about him...just seemed a regular geek into his gear...and boy does he have some. 
We'll leave you in charge of a report when they land. I don't doubt they won't be great, just the visuals will take some time getting used to for me, I've been a PRS owner for 30 years now so it will take some time to get used to this configurment.