Axe_FX II Rigs, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Digital Modelling.

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

On that note, do the fuzz emulations on the Axe work properly?  Can you get a Fuzz Face to react like a Fuzz face with relation to the guitar's volume knob?  Can you still do that even if you use another pedal that would be 'buffered' somewhere?  Or is that not how the Axe works?  

I really like Fuzz pedals but I never use them because of how other pedals that I use interact with them, and I'm not about to go and re-buy a set of pedals specifically with the goal of having a FF that works properly.

It doesn't work the same as it works in the real world.

IMHO it is one of the areas they need to concentrate on.

Drew_TNBD

I don't like fuzz, so couldn't tell you!!

guitarfishbay

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

On that note, do the fuzz emulations on the Axe work properly?  Can you get a Fuzz Face to react like a Fuzz face with relation to the guitar's volume knob?  Can you still do that even if you use another pedal that would be 'buffered' somewhere?  Or is that not how the Axe works?  

I really like Fuzz pedals but I never use them because of how other pedals that I use interact with them, and I'm not about to go and re-buy a set of pedals specifically with the goal of having a FF that works properly.

It doesn't work the same as it works in the real world.

IMHO it is one of the areas they need to concentrate on.

Thanks, that is a real shame as things stand then.

Drew, what happens with a real FF is when your guitar volume is on 10 you get fuzz, when you roll it back it almost switches the Fuzz off, so you get awesome control from your volume pot if your amp is set to a fairly crunchy sound (which IMO is the best way to use a FF).  That way you can go from cleanish to dirty ish with the volume control, then rediculous fuzz filth arrives when you roll to 10.  It is lots of fun, but the second you add any buffered pedals the tonality of the FF gets a lot more splatty and bright IME.  Very frustrating because I have non negotiable pedals on my board (TU3, SD1, Decimator) that have buffers, plus I'm not up for using any workarounds that take up room on the board, I don't have the room nor do I want to buy a bigger board.

One day it would be awesome to be able to cheat reality with a modelling unit that could keep the FF behaviour even with 'buffered' pedals being used in the same patch.

Drew_TNBD

SCR00 FUZZZZZ!!!

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

On that note, do the fuzz emulations on the Axe work properly?  Can you get a Fuzz Face to react like a Fuzz face with relation to the guitar's volume knob?  Can you still do that even if you use another pedal that would be 'buffered' somewhere?  Or is that not how the Axe works?  

I really like Fuzz pedals but I never use them because of how other pedals that I use interact with them, and I'm not about to go and re-buy a set of pedals specifically with the goal of having a FF that works properly.

It doesn't work the same as it works in the real world.

IMHO it is one of the areas they need to concentrate on.

Thanks, that is a real shame as things stand then.

Really?

We have the best technology ever available to us at this point in time.

Is it perfect?

No.

Will it ever be?

No, probably not.

The AFX is still an incredible tool and it massively simplifies things for a lot of people.

Comments like this kinda piss me off- it is like the teenager complaining that they can't get Facebook on their iPhone when on a plane hurtling across the planet at 1000 miles an hour.

Fuzzes in the AFX still sound like fuzzes, but no you don't quite get the interactivity of a volume pot to fuzz pedal stuff you get under *very limited* conditions with a real world amp.

guitarfishbay

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

octatonic said:

guitarfishbay said:

On that note, do the fuzz emulations on the Axe work properly?  Can you get a Fuzz Face to react like a Fuzz face with relation to the guitar's volume knob?  Can you still do that even if you use another pedal that would be 'buffered' somewhere?  Or is that not how the Axe works?  

I really like Fuzz pedals but I never use them because of how other pedals that I use interact with them, and I'm not about to go and re-buy a set of pedals specifically with the goal of having a FF that works properly.

It doesn't work the same as it works in the real world.

IMHO it is one of the areas they need to concentrate on.

Thanks, that is a real shame as things stand then.

Really?

We have the best technology ever available to us at this point in time.

Is it perfect?

No.

Will it ever be?

No, probably not.

The AFX is still an incredible tool and it massively simplifies things for a lot of people.

Comments like this kinda piss me off- it is like the teenager complaining that they can't get Facebook on their iPhone when on a plane hurtling across the planet at 1000 miles an hour.

Fuzzes in the AFX still sound like fuzzes, but no you don't quite get the interactivity of a volume pot to fuzz pedal stuff you get under *very limited* conditions with a real world amp.

Come on man be fair here.

My question was a legitimate question, and yes I'm disappointed it can't do it yet - but judging from your post it would be a feature you'd be interested in too.  I'm not discussing the other advantages of the unit, I know them and so do the other people reading this post, I was just talking about that one specific issue.  I'm well aware of real world issues with gear hence why I've just sold more than half my pedal collection in the classifieds in the past month.  I'm literally stripping back to a 'regular' setup that does exactly what my band needs, and saving towards a digital setup that will do everything else, and make recording much easier for me (plus a lot more mobile).

octatonic

I'm not having a go at you really and yes I'd like to see more development.

However, you said it was a 'real shame' which confers a sense of entitlement, as though they somehow *should* have sorted that by now, dammit.

It isn't possible for the AFX to be all things to all people.

It still sounds great and the fuzzes are very good for what they are but if you want a 100% accurate model of them then it won't be in the AFX.

I don't think it is really possible in any digital system, yet.

guitarfishbay

Ok I understand why you responded by that then.  No I'm not intending to confer entitlement, but it would be a feature I'd love to use if it ever came about.  I wouldn't even use it often, but the option would go beyond what is possible in the analogue world and would be an additional really fantastic advantage for digital devices.

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

Ok I understand why you responded by that then.  No I'm not intending to confer entitlement, but it would be a feature I'd love to use if it ever came about.  I wouldn't even use it often, but the option would go beyond what is possible in the analogue world and would be an additional really fantastic advantage for digital devices.

We AFX owners get a lot of stick from people because it doesn't do X, Y or Z.

It can be a bit tiresome endlessly defending this little box, which is IMHO an extraordinary piece of kit.

If I over-reacted then I apologise.

guitarfishbay

No worries dude all is cool.

Clarky

just to chip in… one of the things you see a lot of in the 'wishes' area of the FAS forum is to do an update that is specifically FX centric.. not just distortions / fuzz / overdrives, but all sorts..

it's not that the FX in the Axe are bad by any means.. in fact I personally think they are superb..

personally though I'd love to see the pitch-shifter with the formant correction / manipulation features that the KPA has.. that looks amazingly powerful..

and I'd love to have an old skool chewy phaser.. like the old 70's Storm Phaser.. it's that fact that it's noisy and nasty that makes it amazing..

what are you guys thinking about the new ultra-res cabs???

Drew_TNBD

I don't hear any real difference between high-res and ultra-res to be honest.

RE: FX. I think the FX are pretty damn good. I read a lot of stuff about the drives only being so-so, but to me they're more than usable. Admittedly I only ever use drives to get a slight amount of crunch on a clean channel, never as my main source of gain.

I find the delays and reverbs to be excellent, but I don't know if I could honestly say that they sit head and shoulders above things like the Zoom MSCDR70, the Line 6 M9, my Boss stomps, Hardwire pedals, and others. Indeed, I A/B'd my Hardwire reverb and didn't feel any appreciable jump in quality.

But what the Axe *does* give you is an all encompassing *workflow* - which to me is the reason to own one. That you can do so much in a 12x4 matrix with near limitless combinations of a variety of effects... nothing else does that. The only other thing that comes close is the Boss GT100, and that is a pretty big drop between the two in terms of capabilities.

There isn't really anything else on the market that allows you to route signals in the way that it does. Not easily anyway.

And I'm not talking complexity. I work in music software, I know software and have been using loads of it since I was 14. I am used to complexity. The Axe FX is a piece of piss to use. It's ridiculously simple, and contrary to popular belief, is not difficult to dial in or find the tones or effect sounds you want.

It's low noise. Pretty damn transparent. Boots up quick. The software editor is great, and editing on the unit is easy. Bucket loads of CPU to do all sorts of effects processing; I've had it generating crazy synth pads underneath my regular playing with ease. I've also got it reproducing my regular setup pretty closely now too.

Is it going to replace absolutely everything I own? Alas... no. If you go in expecting that, you're going to be disappointed I think. I plugged into my Diezel and my regular pedalboard today, and was just as happy with the sounds. I did think I detected a bit more authenticity in the sound as well, but remember that I've only just had the Axe, haven't gigged it, and haven't paired it with a true poweramp - only a 60's PA valve amp. So it's probably not a fair fight right now.

I'm really thinking that I'll just use my valve amp and pedalboard for regular live playing, and use the Axe just for recording. There is a slight nag in the back of my head in that if I come up with a cool sound when recording, I might not necessarily be able to reproduce it live. Cross that bridge if/when I come to it.

Si_

Bugger.. looks like my GT1000fx has a fault on Channel A. I've been going through some diagnostics with matrix over the last few days and there is defiantly an issue with it. As usual matrix have been excellent and are going to look at it for me as soon as I've got a chance to sent it back to them. Until then I can use Channel B which appears to be functioning correctly.

Drew_TNBD

That sucks dude, but at least channel B is okay!!

@Clarky - did you see Cliff acknowledged there was a bug in the Dizzy models? He got the CF values wrong in the default settings, and since I rarely tweak them, didn't spot it. But he says with FW15b try these with the Dizzy models:
CF Compression: 70%
CF Time: 3.2 ms
CF Ratio: 0.38

Clarky

that's one of the things with Matrix.. the after sale support is superb... they really do give a crap..

 

@Drew_fx I think the 'grid' was actually the major game changer with the Axe.. even if the modelling was no better than the competition, this feature alone is killer and would make it stand above the others.. combine the 'best in class' modelling with the grid and the result is seriously potent..

I still reckon you need to try your Axe through a proper poweramp and big cabs.. I'm not saying it'll be 100% Diezel.. but it may be a step closer to what you've heard so far.. plus.. it seems like Cliff has another 'thing' cooking at the moment.. when he has these he always seems to take the modelling a little further towards closing the gap between the Axe and the real thing in that final few %..

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

That sucks dude, but at least channel B is okay!!

@Clarky - did you see Cliff acknowledged there was a bug in the Dizzy models? He got the CF values wrong in the default settings, and since I rarely tweak them, didn't spot it. But he says with FW15b try these with the Dizzy models:
CF Compression: 70%
CF Time: 3.2 ms
CF Ratio: 0.38

I did... and I tried those settings.. the VH4 becomes dryer, brighter and more thumping..

I really liked it actually...

Drew_TNBD

Here is a very rough demo, featuring Axe on guitars and bass.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nut6h2al2ok6ts/Plus2Degrees_Bass.mp3

Das Metall yet again - I think it's my favourite amp on the thing! Cleans were the Super Verb. Light crunch was Das Metall with gain at something like 1.2 with boost and saturation both turned off.

Bass was Orange Thunderverb 200, TS pedal and two SVT cabs. Few timing issues, but as I said... only a demo!

guitarfishbay

Drew, have you compared sending FX send of your amp to impulses with the Axe Das Metal to the same impulse?  Is there a noticeable difference in the core tone (ignoring the tweaks that can't be replicated on the real head).

I've been experimenting with a 'hand crank FX', reamping guitars from FX send of my Roadster to some impulses.  The main reason I've done this is so I can tweak the tone while listening to the rest of the mix.  Reamping loud in the same room as I'm mixing means I'm in a cycle of tweak, record, listen, re-tweak, re-record, re-listen.  Also the volume restricts what times of day I can do this.  FWIW I'm finding FX send of the Roadster sounds noticeably better (more meat, less fizz) than Amplitube and Lepou Recto sims.

Drew_TNBD

Well... lets do a little test... this isn't absolutely scientific...

Same DI signal going into three preamps. One is the Dmoll, one is Axe FX with poweramp enabled, one is Axe FX with poweramp disabled. All going through the same cab impulse and level matched as closely as I could. See if you can spot which is which. Remember... the Dmoll is not the same amp as the Das Metall. So there are tonal differences. Try to listen past that, and listen to the character and nature of the distortion.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/AxeVersusDmollPreamp/PreampA.wav
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/AxeVersusDmollPreamp/PreampB.wav
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/GearDemos/AxeVersusDmollPreamp/PreampC.wav

guitarfishbay

One listen of each here's what I'm calling.

A - D Moll

B - Das Metal

C - Das Metal preamp