Axe_FX II Rigs, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Digital Modelling.

Handsome_Chris

It's nothing to do with making sense: It's about being the Motörhead of wedding bands.

Clarky

now that is something worth striving for

guitarfishbay

I really enjoyed using my Axe 2/GT1000FX/Mesa 2x12 setup at rehearsal last night.  There was a 4x12 cab in the room but it was an 'unknown' type, really beaten up and no markings, so I just used it as a stand for my 2x12.  Stood in front of it I could easily feel the punch from the cab and I didn't even run it that loud (didn't need to with it being so high up).

I definitely think matching up (or at least tweaking to more suitable) speaker tab settings to your cab makes a difference.

I still want a second 2x12, but I'm wondering if my best option is to get a second Mesa 2x12, rather than a different brand 2x12.  The other options I'd be looking at would be Montage Pro, Zilla, or possibly Matamp, with V30s and full depth/width - the biggest differences are they'd be taller and have Chinese as opposed to Mesa spec English V30s.  Well, that and a couple of hundred quid cheaper new which is not to be sniffed at.  I'm concerned that they'd benefit from different settings and I think I just want to keep my switching the way it is to avoid gaps.  It is hard to know if it'd really matter a lot but I don't really have an option to test mismatched V30 cabs, so I figure playing it safe is the best option.  I guess I'm just going to save up and keep an eye on eBay for a used Mesa 2x12.

The thing that annoys me is that new they come with covers and castors, yet on the used market they're usually missing one or both.  They aren't even cheap second hand, and neither are replacement castors or a decent replacement cover (I think Hotcovers and Roqsolid covers are slightly better than the standard Mesa one, at the expense of not folding down as small).

gearaddict

Not easy this modelling stuff eh?

Seems to only make sense if you really need lots of complex switching. Or you needs loads of different amp sounds for recording. Not sure it makes a lot of sense for your basic pub band guitarist (e.g. me!) - unless you're in a tribute band where you need to replicate whole albums of tones and effects or something.

It's funny how it's now much cheaper to have a nice basic valve amp than it is to go down the digital modelling route. Who'd have thunk it?

guitarfishbay

gearaddict said:

Not easy this modelling stuff eh?

No and yes.  I definitely wouldn't recommend going digital to someone who doesn't have a clear idea of what they want to achieve and at least some technical knowledge.  But it has only taken me a few rehearsals to get a tone I like - and I would've gotten it quicker had I not left the bright switch on first time, and read up on/experimented with the speaker tab sooner.  Setting those two things the way I want pretty much gets tones ballpark really quickly if they're going to work with my cab, then I just adjust regular amp controls (gain, bass, mid, treble, presence, resonance).  There are a few amps where I reduce the standard master volume setting, but this is a 'to taste' thing, as a largely high gain player I don't always want the same kind of 'power amp' saturation that others might.

gearaddict said:

Seems to only make sense if you really need lots of complex switching. Or you needs loads of different amp sounds for recording.

I don't really have complex switching needs.  My real pedal board only has 3 fucntional pedals - a boost (well 2, but I could use one and alter the setting for one song, though I find it easier to just have 2), a volume pedal, and a delay pedal where I use 2 patches - one with modulation and one without.  I have a tuner that is always left on, a noise gate that is always left on, and an external tap tempo switch. 

All I'm doing on the Axe is condensing my simple setup in to less clicks.  So instead of going guitar+boost -> switch off boost, switch on delay, reduce volume pedal to give quieter mid gain sound, I can now just reduce my volume pedal setting and have it fade in the delay and switch off the boost.

I don't necessarily need lots of different amp sounds for recording, but being able to record a good quality sound at a quiet volume level is massively beneficial to using a real setup.  I have a good selection of mics, and before owning the Axe I owned an EVH412, Recto 4x12, and two valve amps.  However if I can only record during the day, and only in the same room (which is a pain for choosing tones in context) it was actually quite a limiting setup that took up a huge amount of space and meant a lot of 'dead' money - e.g. I never took the EVH412 out of the house after I discovered I didn't like it in a band context as much as a V30 cab.

gearaddict said:

 unless you're in a tribute band where you need to replicate whole albums of tones and effects or something.

Emulating the effects is one thing, but you probably don't need an Axe for that anyway.  In a lot of cases a Line 6 M9/13, HD500(X) or Boss GT8/10/100 etc could give you enough effects.  Emulating lots of tone changes probably also isn't the best idea, having a broadly consistent sound which is varied slightly as opposed to drastically is usually a better approach.  The main reason you'd go digital for live is that you'd prefer the workflow all things considered.  My Axe is my live solution and my recording solution, and it is much smaller, lighter and more practical than the 'real' rig I'd need for the same results.

gearaddict said:

It's funny how it's now much cheaper to have a nice basic valve amp than it is to go down the digital modelling route. Who'd have thunk it?

Not always true.  If you just want a basic valve amp then yes, but I don't, also people forget the value of pedalboards too.  I've kept my pedalboard so far, just in case I change my mind.  But it cost me hundreds of pounds and has very little actual functionality when you look at it objectively.  Just getting the bare minimum 'functional' stuff like the board, case, powersupply, tuner, noisegate, volume pedal... it costs hundreds to get good quality stuff and you've still not got to the point of adding anything interesting yet.

For several reasons I've gone completely digital right now.  I've sold all my amp/cab gear except for my Recto 2x12, and as I've said, I'll probably get another 2x12 at some point.

So I sold my Mesa Roadster head, Laney Ironheart head, Recto 4x12 cab, and EVH 4x12 cab.  I bought all that gear s/h at good prices, but if you go and search the new prices vs the new price on the Axe (or Kemper) you'll realise that it is a lot cheaper to go digital for some people.  All I've sold is a halfstack, backup head, and a second choice cab for recording...  Save for the second 4x12 I wouldn't say that is out of the ordinary gear wise for someone.

guitarfishbay

I would also suggest reading info on certain webforums with a grain of salt, especially when posters are talking in absolutes like 'I always add 2k from such and such an EQ' or 'I always increase this parameter' etc...  I don't think everyone giving advice is necessarily A) skilled/knowledgeable or giving appropriate advice for what you're looking for.  This is of course the case on all webforums, but if you're new and trying to learn something about a unit incorrect advice could seriously hamper your experiences with a unit.

Also you can't move 2 inches without being told to go FRFR on a modelling forum.  It is like the PA companies have got moles in every forum community.... trust noone!  >-) (first time I've had a use for that smiley).

Drew_TNBD

guitarfishbay;354430" said:

Also you can't move 2 inches without being told to go FRFR on a modelling forum.  It is like the PA companies have got moles in every forum community.... trust noone!  >-) (first time I've had a use for that smiley).

This is the one thing that pisses me off constantly. It's like they imagine we've never tried it!!

Roland

guitarfishbay;354430" said:

I would also suggest reading info on certain webforums with a grain of salt, especially when posters are talking in absolutes like 'I always add 2k from such and such an EQ' or 'I always increase this parameter' etc...  I don't think everyone giving advice is necessarily A) skilled/knowledgeable or giving appropriate advice for what you're looking for.  This is of course the case on all webforums, but if you're new and trying to learn something about a unit incorrect advice

That's been an important part of this thread: we have different needs, and different experiences. A lot of internet forum posters have their personal view of "right and wrong", and declare nuclear war if their self awarded "world's expert" label is challenged. One of the really nice things about this forum is that we are not so prone to such behaviour.

My experience is similar to @guitarfishbay. Covers band, with a need for four basic amp sounds, and simple FX that I can switch without dancing. Some of the places we play are too small for more than a 1x12, both space and volume wise, so the ability to match the volume to the venue without losing tone is important. So I am interested in @Drew_fx 's experience, but am glad that I don't have to lug a 4x12 around. It works for me, but listening to his video (in another thread) I can see why it doesn't work for him.

As they've both said more than once: workflow is key. Very few guitarists have the luxury of a tech to switch effects, and when they do it's courtesy of a switching system that changes many settings simultaneously.

Am I rambling? That's what happens when you post from your phone over lunch

Handsome_Chris

I remember coming to the defence of someone who was getting abuse for not liking the preferred preferred FRFR solution (not a British company) on the FAS forum. It was horrific. The king of the company weighed and started lambasting the guy for his opinion, let alone the fanboys.

Cliff Chase (FAS boss) closed the thread, and I believe that the product designer has not posted on the forum ever since.

Drew_TNBD

Roland said:

guitarfishbay;354430" said:

I would also suggest reading info on certain webforums with a grain of salt, especially when posters are talking in absolutes like 'I always add 2k from such and such an EQ' or 'I always increase this parameter' etc...  I don't think everyone giving advice is necessarily A) skilled/knowledgeable or giving appropriate advice for what you're looking for.  This is of course the case on all webforums, but if you're new and trying to learn something about a unit incorrect advice

That's been an important part of this thread: we have different needs, and different experiences. A lot of internet forum posters have their personal view of "right and wrong", and declare nuclear war if their self awarded "world's expert" label is challenged. One of the really nice things about this forum is that we are not so prone to such behaviour.

My experience is similar to @guitarfishbay. Covers band, with a need for four basic amp sounds, and simple FX that I can switch without dancing. Some of the places we play are too small for more than a 1x12, both space and volume wise, so the ability to match the volume to the venue without losing tone is important. So I am interested in @Drew_fx 's experience, but am glad that I don't have to lug a 4x12 around. It works for me, but listening to his video (in another thread) I can see why it doesn't work for him.

At the moment I am not intending to move over to digital for live shows. Mainly because I cannot afford to try out a variety of poweramps at this point in time. The only way I could afford it would be to sell my Diezel head and replace it with a poweramp, and I'm not prepared to do that. So I'm looking at these two devices - Kemper and Axe FX - as purely recording solutions.

I also don't intend to go FRFR, and I don't intend to move away from 4x12's. I used to use a 2x12 live, and the difference is pretty drastic imho. I've heard 1x12's live and they don't cut it, especially in the places we play and the kind of music we play.

gearaddict

You're right! I want one now....

Drew_TNBD

Handsome_Chris said:

I remember coming to the defence of someone who was getting abuse for not liking the preferred preferred FRFR solution (not a British company) on the FAS forum. It was horrific. The king of the company weighed and started lambasting the guy for his opinion, let alone the fanboys.

Cliff Chase (FAS boss) closed the thread, and I believe that the product designer has not posted on the forum ever since.

Was that Jay Mitchell?

guitarfishbay

Drew_fx said:

Handsome_Chris said:

I remember coming to the defence of someone who was getting abuse for not liking the preferred preferred FRFR solution (not a British company) on the FAS forum. It was horrific. The king of the company weighed and started lambasting the guy for his opinion, let alone the fanboys.

Cliff Chase (FAS boss) closed the thread, and I believe that the product designer has not posted on the forum ever since.

Was that Jay Mitchell?

First result on Google for Jay Mitchell CLR brings up this inspired thread title (contains swearing). http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/digital-amps-modeling-gear/12081.htm

Drew_TNBD

Well... I can say that whilst LVC in that thread isn't coming off as the sharpest tool in the box... I can echo his sentiments regarding Mitchell and Peterson. They're both prize tools and have driven enough people away from the products they promote as they have successfully created sales.

Without going off on too much of a tangent... what the fuck is it with American guitar manufacturers and fanbois? They really are the worst.

Drew_TNBD

And it's like... they all make such a big deal about this FRFR solution and this other one, and get into huge flame wars about it... and they're just playing Mustang Sally down the local bar.

Okay, that's totally a value judgement, but fuck... Mozart they aint!

Clarky

Handsome_Chris said:

I remember coming to the defence of someone who was getting abuse for not liking the preferred preferred FRFR solution (not a British company) on the FAS forum. It was horrific. The king of the company weighed and started lambasting the guy for his opinion, let alone the fanboys.

Cliff Chase (FAS boss) closed the thread, and I believe that the product designer has not posted on the forum ever since.

I remember that... nasty bizniz

Clarky

Drew_fx said:

Well... I can say that whilst LVC in that thread isn't coming off as the sharpest tool in the box... I can echo his sentiments regarding Mitchell and Peterson. They're both prize tools and have driven enough people away from the products they promote as they have successfully created sales.

Without going off on too much of a tangent... what the fuck is it with American guitar manufacturers and fanbois? They really are the worst.

there does seem to be this "made in America" thing going on.. and a general feeling that if it's not American it can't possibly be good..

unless of course it's Ibanez, Marshall, Diezel, Engl, Laney, Roland - Boss, Yamaha, etc.. etc... etc... etc.... etc..

Roland

Drew_fx said:

Without going off on too much of a tangent... what the fuck is it with American guitar manufacturers and fanbois?

There is a cultural difference between the US and the UK which we Brits often overlook.  On a radio programme about healthcare this week it was described as "In the US they look for someone or some product to fix them, in the UK we try to fix ourselves". Certainly US based forums ("fora" for the vocab nazis) tend towards "what should I buy?" whereas UK forum users are more likely to ask "how should I do this?". 

Handsome_Chris

@Roland, wise words, mate. I noticed that difference in our culture, but wouldn't thought it would go this far. Now you've pointed it out I can certainly see that. I suppose that us UKers are more used to squeezing everything we can out of what we have, rather than throwing money at a problem. 

I know that this is probably a crass generalisation based on my experience, and it's probably a bit rich from someone who needs just one more guitar to reach self actualisation.

Handsome_Chris

Drew_fx;354546" said:

Handsome_Chris said:

I remember coming to the defence of someone who was getting abuse for not liking the preferred preferred FRFR solution (not a British company) on the FAS forum. It was horrific. The king of the company weighed and started lambasting the guy for his opinion, let alone the fanboys.



Cliff Chase (FAS boss) closed the thread, and I believe that the product designer has not posted on the forum ever since.





Was that Jay Mitchell?

I can not confirm or deny that rumour.