Axe_FX II Rigs, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Digital Modelling.

Handsome_Chris

Oh come on. Get with it, Grandad! :P

Clarky

yellow card

guitarfishbay

Wow, 16.02 has a lot of new stuff.  I can still switch so I'm tempted to give it a go.  http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/91596-axe-fx-ii-firmware-16-02-released.html

16.02

Improved Amp block output transformer modeling. New algorithm more accurately simulates effects of inter-winding capacitance and the resulting load on the virtual power tubes. This results in improved high frequency response. Tones have more “chime” without being harsh. This is especially noticeable for amps with low negative feedback or when the Presence is turned up high.

Added Slope parameter to SPKR page in Amp block. This parameter allows fine adjustment of the high-frequency impedance of the virtual voice coil (which affects the slope of the impedance curve). A speaker voice coil is “semi-inductive” due to eddy current losses in the motor. This presents an impedance to the power amp that isn’t fully inductive nor fully resistive. The amount of resistive loss varies by brand and type. Reducing the Slope simulates a speaker that is less inductive, increasing Slope simulates a speaker that is more inductive. Typical speakers range from 3.0 to 4.5 with the median being about 3.7. Lower values yield greater midrange while higher values are more scooped and sizzly. 

Improved Compressor block by adding a new dynamics processing algorithm. The block has been renamed Comp/Dynmc in light of this. There are now four types of dynamics algorithms: Studio Compressor, Pedal Compressor 1, Pedal Compressor 2, and Dynamics. The Dynamics algorithm allows compression or expansion with a single control. When the Dynamics parameter is set to negative values the block compresses the signal, when set to positive values the block expands the signal.

Added “Fast RMS” Detector type to Studio Comp type in Compressor block. This detector type mimics the fast detectors in classic rack-mount compressors.

Added “Dynamics” control to amp block. This parameter controls a dynamics processor that can be used to alter the dynamic response of the amp algorithms. When set below zero the amp compresses resulting in a smoother, less dynamic sound. When set greater than zero the amp expands resulting in a punchier, crunchier and more dynamic sound. Note that extreme values can have undesirable side-effects such as pumping and clipping.

Added AC voltage control to Amp block. This parameter, called “AC Voltage (Variac)” in the Advanced menu sets the relative AC line voltage into the amp simulation implementing a virtual “Variac”. Note that normally the volume would vary with the Variac setting in a real amp but the simulation compensates for the volume change by applying the inverse. This mitigates having to manually compensate using the Output Level. 

Improved Noise Gate. The noise gate now features two types: “Classic” and “Intelligent”. The Classic type is unchanged from previous firmwares and is a basic downward expander. The Intelligent type features faster and more stable gating along with a proprietary noise reduction algorithm.

Added ducking to Reverb block. The ducking works analogously to the ducking in the Delay block.

Added “Class-A 30W Hot” amp model based on a Vox AC30HW with the Hot/Cool switch in the Hot position.

Moved Spkr Drive parameter in Amp block to Advanced menu page.

Fixed Angle Severe models oscillating if Presence turned way down.

Fixed wrong Low Cut Freq in AC-20 Dlx Treb model.

Fixed several errors in the Citrus Terrier amp model.

Fixed Global menu Reverb Mix value display being overwritten.

ThePrettyDamned

Bloody hell, it's amazing how detailed the modelling is.

Clarky

ThePrettyDamned said:

Bloody hell, it's amazing how detailed the modelling is.

it's component level stuff..

if you don't want to goof around with the guts of the amp, you can simply use the "basic" page, which is just the controls you'd find on the real amp.. if you want to be a little more adventurous, you can poke around under the bonnet and make modifications just like taking your amp to some clever custom workshop.. but of course now you don't send anything anywhere, it just takes a few mouse clicks etc, and it's free.. plus, if you don't like what the mod did, you can reset the amp and undo all your customising..

that's how I beefed up the MkIIC from being a mid-gain cruncher into a hi-gain monster.. I moved the master volume post phase inverter.. do that on most low-gain amps and they go mental..

I also have a JCM800 I 'warmed' up by swapping the power valves from EL34 to KT88..

you can really have some fun with all this...

that said... your life with the Axe-II don't have to be endless noddling.. my propper presets are sorted, sacred and locked down.. they don't get messed with..

when I complete the album I'm working on, I'm going to spend a little time experimenting with a new set of presets.. to see if I can creating something better sounding, more capable etc... not because I have to make improvements, the bar is already set really high, but because I can and because it's fun..

guitarfishbay

@Clarky am I right in thinking you've got a Roland FC300?

I've just started reading up on these.  It might be a better choice for switching than my Pod HD500x as I'd get access to 5 scenes instead of 4, and also I'd get two expression pedals without needing to carry extra stuff/cables (or having to buy more expression pedals).

How do you feel about the expression pedals, do you like them?  Is there a decent amount of room between switches - it is hard to tell from photos?  Does the unit feel decent quality?  I'm a bit put off the Berhinger lookalike because I don't want something that feels too flimsy, and from what I understand the Ground Control Pro can't do scenes properly... looks like I either stick with the Pod or sell it and buy one of these.

I need to read up more but ideally I'd want it to do this -

Switch scenes 1-5 on the bottom row.  I think it can do this.

Ctrl 1 is Tuner

Ctrl 2 is Tap Tempo.  I think it can do both of these

Expression 1 is volume 

Expression 2 is whatever else - I'm pretty sure it can do both these but apparently there are switches, are they hardware switches like on a crybaby type or the type for example on some multi FX pedals where you just apply a lot of pressure and it switches?  Can you stop the switches sending info?  I wouldn't want my volume pedal sending info for example, I'd want it always on.  Second pedal I would like to switch on and off as it would be my 'other' pedal.

I'm not quite sure how the bank/mode switches work.  I would just want them to do patch up/down.  I need to read the manaul I guess but any thoughts would be appreciated.  Cheers

guitarfishbay

Hmm... That looks like a lot of text once I blurt it out like that.

To summarise -

Is the build quality any good?  Will someone with clumsy feet get on with the spacing?

Are the switches on the expression pedals real hardware switches or just pressure type ones?

Can you make the bank/mode switch just send patch up/down?

mrkb

I'd get a MFC to be honest - i tried using my HD500, but picked up a second hand MFC and its way better.

This one is for sale at £375, sell your HD500 and you'd only need to put another £200 in?

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/sale/91060-axe-fx-2-mk2-mfc-mk1-plus-more-uk.html

guitarfishbay

I'm just concerned the MFC switches are too close together for my preferences.  That is the biggest reason stopping me tbh.  I don't need the extra functionality either, not that it hurts to have it.

Clarky

I have both the MFC and the FC-300.. I'll try write up a lil' somethnig for ya a lil' later

I got a stood-dude give a good learn in a mo

I reckon something nice... like Lamb of God: Walk With Me in Hell should hit the spot...

guitarfishbay

Ok.

I just updated to 16.02, have been playing through my cab tonight.  Unless I just forgot what it sounded like before it finished updating my patches sound thicker in the high end.  I deliberately dialed in a Recto Red patch that was a bit bright, now it sounds fatter.

My home 5150 patch sounds darker and fatter.

My home AFD patch now sounds too dark, so I'll sort that out.

I just cranked the Treble to 9 my AC30 patch and it sounds great, as opposed to bright like it sounded before (I had to leave it at 7).

I seem to get a fatter high end when I dig in on the double verb clean patch I have.

My home Engl patch now sounds different, mids sound more forward than I remember.  I quite like it.

This seems to have been quite a big change!  Definitely wouldn't go now Clarky, unless my mind is playing tricks on me the high end on all the amps just got a bit darker and fatter in response, in a good way IMO.  Not touched any of the new toys yet.

Something I've noticed since owning the Axe was I ran presence and treble values lower than 'expected', this seems to have sorted out the issue at home.  Will have to wait til next Thurs to find out if I feel the same in the rehearsal room.

chrispy108

Sounds like you need a second AxeFX Clarky, a locked down one for touring/recording, and a fun one. That way you could be playing with the new firmware now and seeing how you like it, then use it for your solos, but still have the sensible one on the old firmware for the tones you started with. You know it makes sense

Clarky

guitarfishbay said:

@Clarky am I right in thinking you've got a Roland FC300?

I've just started reading up on these.  It might be a better choice for switching than my Pod HD500x as I'd get access to 5 scenes instead of 4, and also I'd get two expression pedals without needing to carry extra stuff/cables (or having to buy more expression pedals).

How do you feel about the expression pedals, do you like them?  Is there a decent amount of room between switches - it is hard to tell from photos?  Does the unit feel decent quality?  I'm a bit put off the Berhinger lookalike because I don't want something that feels too flimsy, and from what I understand the Ground Control Pro can't do scenes properly... looks like I either stick with the Pod or sell it and buy one of these.

I need to read up more but ideally I'd want it to do this -

Switch scenes 1-5 on the bottom row.  I think it can do this.

Ctrl 1 is Tuner

Ctrl 2 is Tap Tempo.  I think it can do both of these

Expression 1 is volume 

Expression 2 is whatever else - I'm pretty sure it can do both these but apparently there are switches, are they hardware switches like on a crybaby type or the type for example on some multi FX pedals where you just apply a lot of pressure and it switches?  Can you stop the switches sending info?  I wouldn't want my volume pedal sending info for example, I'd want it always on.  Second pedal I would like to switch on and off as it would be my 'other' pedal.

I'm not quite sure how the bank/mode switches work.  I would just want them to do patch up/down.  I need to read the manaul I guess but any thoughts would be appreciated.  Cheers

The FC-300 is great.. I love it..

low to the ground, the switches are big and have a very short throw..

it can be expanded too - I use an FS-6 [which is another 2 switches] - and it's configurable

there are 3 stereo inputs in the back which can each be configured to be either a pair of switches or an XP

standard mode: the main switches are all pgm change, the rest are CC

CC mode: all switches are CC

sysex: for a VG-99 or some other Roland / Boss kit

preset mode: you can create all kinds of custom config

the on board XP's are great.. plus they have toe switches too [which are MIDI assignable]

the MFC-101 has old school stomp style switches [which I'm not fond of], they're high off the ground and feel clunky to me..

but the MFC is far more capable / configurable..

and it's sysex compatible with the Axe

and it has 17 switches in all

initially I didn't like it, now I've struggle to revert to less cos I've grown into it..

why do I not use the FC-300 if I like it so much?

it can only send a single CC command per switch

the MFC can send 2 simultaneously.. which is something I've exploited:

- cmnd1 is a CC that calls up a specific scene

- cmnd2 is a CC assigned to a specific modifier [to control things that cannot be controlled via a scene]

here's how I use it..

Riff scene:

amp1, panned left

amp2, panned right

Solo scene:

amp1, panned centre

amp2, bypass: mute

the scene change mutes amp2 and the modifier controls the panning of amp1

this means that I can avoid an amp1: X-Y change and so my riff to solo switching is immediate and flawless..

also, the MFC has a switch 'link' feature to control the LEDs [which the FC-300 does not]

my scene IA switches are all linked, so that when I'm soloing, IA2 is lit, IA1, 3, 4, 5 are not

when I switch to riff, IA1 lights and the IA2 LED switches off

the FC-300 feels nicer from a performance standpoint, but I could never go back to it with the Axe

it's just not capable enough for me..

Clarky

chrispy108 said:

Sounds like you need a second AxeFX Clarky, a locked down one for touring/recording, and a fun one. That way you could be playing with the new firmware now and seeing how you like it, then use it for your solos, but still have the sensible one on the old firmware for the tones you started with. You know it makes sense

yes I'd like another Axe-II

but this is so I can:

- tour with a pair [one active, one standby]

- reamp 2 guitars through two pairs of amps and cabs simultaneously [better for setting up blended tones, and a faster recording process]

- teach with me and the student having an Axe each [right now the student uses the Axe and I use a 2120 - although I still love the 2120]

the Axe-II has 384 user slots

I have a table in a word doc that shows my bank layout in banks of 10 presets

for example…

0 to 9 is the "performance area": this will be loaded with all the presets I need for what I'm doing and who with.. so if I'm practicing the Siberian set, it'll be loaded with Syberian studio presets, if I'm on tour with the DC Band, it'll be loaded with the DCB Live presets

10 to 99 is the 'live preset' storage area

10 to 19: DCB Live [where I store that latest live presets for the DC Band

20 to 29: Civilians Live

30 to 39: Siberian Live

100 to 199 is the Reamping and experimental area

100 to 109: DCB reamp

110 to 119: DCB experimental

and so on

I also have areas for Studio presets [which are the studio versions of the equivalent live presets - grouped by band / project]

250 to 299 is the 'misc' area where I stash cool things I discover, presets friends send me and anything I think that's generally cool

and I also have a 'lab area' where I goof with experimental presets.. test new control ideas.. etc

and….. lmao

I store loads of presets in my Mac [I have an archive of old experiments good and bad]

I'll never run out of space..

yes I want two Axe-II units..

but they'll be loaded the with the same stuff..

paulmapp8306

Then get 3 - after all you keep telling us more is better

Clarky

this is true… lmao

guitarfishbay

Thanks for the writeup @Clarky

Results from last night's playing:

I decided to try out dialling in an amp from scratch using the 'correct' measured LF response of someone else's Mesa 2x12 (as previously posted) as opposed to my 'ideal' settings (which were based on the same frequency but wider Q and higher amount, to get a bigger sound from the 5150s).

Well, all I can say is I actually think it sounds better to have the narrow Q.  Amps that were a bit too flubby otherwise (Rectos, SLO) now sound tighter, and of course the tighter amps sound even tighter but I can just up the depth to sort it out for my tastes.  Both Recto and SLO stock settings are quite flubby IMO, but with a higher Q they tighten up nicely.

I think what happened was I went from having less low end punch than expected (when I just set it by ear and thought the Freq had to be lower), to too much punch (and I got a bit addicted to the punch), now it sounds more natural.  Really impressed, I'm really enjoying it.

I think the reason I didn't like the settings first time round was I'd dialled in the amps using pretty nuts settings - Freq around 114, amount 7+, Q of 2.  Going to amount 5.79 and Q of 3.1xx felt like the sounds got thinner.  Well du'h.  Starting from scratch with those settings then dialling the amps sounds really good, and I can use higher bass, master volume, and depth settings without things getting too flubby in a bad way.

Overall re: the FW.  The change from V15 to 16.01 was pretty subtle to me, but 16.01 - 16.02 seems to have had an impact on the high end of the amps (for the better IMO).

Anyone else used 16.02 yet?

Clarky

this is the prob with doing anything by ear.. mixing, sound design, tone creation etc...

your ear has a knack of getting used to what you're hearing.. so it compensates.. eventually, it'll make even a bad mix / tone sound great..

the solution is.... coffee..

when mixing or goofing with tone, you need to re-calibrate your ears for 5 mins every hour.. so go put the kettle on and stop listening to whatever it is you're doing.. when you listen again after coffee time, that rocking mix / amazing tone may now sound like total poo..

 

btw - if you live close enough to me, you're welcome to try out my FC-300 and MFC-101

Drew_TNBD

I've gotta get this off my chest, and it's the one thing that I dislike about the Axe FX...

But the Axe Fx in 4-cable method is utter bollocks. Too much fucking around with levels, too much noise, too much tone suck... it really is atrocious that a piece of gear this high-end was never properly designed for this use case. I'm told later versions improved the noise floor, but it really is balls.

A Pod HD is *way* easier to setup and *sounds better* !!

Yes. I said it. Flame me naow.

guitarfishbay

Yeah the mark 1 unit seems to get a worse rep for 4CM. I've not tried incorporating anything else in to my Axe workflow so far so I don't know what it is like on the XL.

But the POD HD gear doesn't suck and the 500/500x are good value because you get the floorboard and expression pedal included. Having A/B'd through my Martix and Mesa Cab I think the Axe amp models are (in many cases lots) better, but for just FX I probably wouldn't have gone for the Axe. Realistically my FX needs are quite simple. The reason I went Axe is it is an all in one solution for me. I'm still happy I chose right for me.