Mourinho OUT!!!!

Lev

The Pochettino  option is  a curious decision if they are putting all of their eggs into that basket because:
1 - He has never won a trophy as a manager 
2 - He is not known as a manager who can manage big players with big ego's. His first season at Spurs saw him get rid of big ego's like Adebayor  and Kaboul and replace them with players he could mold and influence - Mason, Kane etc. Even younger players who  get too big for their boots get shipped out quickly - Townsend & Bentalab for example. I have my doubts about whether he could deal with Pogba, Sanchez etc. Shipping them out the door may not be financially viable at Utd.
3 - He is only 6 months into a 5 year contract so it's going to cost 
4 - His chairman is Daniel Levy so it's going to cost even more than point #3. Utd have just paid out a massive package to Mourinho so add to that the cost of getting Poch and we are talking up to £100m to change managers. 

There are proven winners available who would not require compensation pay offs - Zidane, Conte and even Blanc so it seems odd to appoint an interm caretaker, essentially writing off this season in order to go for Poch in the summer.

deano

Lev said:

The Pochettino  option is  a curious decision if they are putting all of their eggs into that basket because:
1 - He has never won a trophy as a manager 
2 - He is not known as a manager who can manage big players with big ego's. His first season at Spurs saw him get rid of big ego's like Adebayor  and Kaboul and replace them with players he could mold and influence - Mason, Kane etc. Even younger players who  get too big for their boots get shipped out quickly - Townsend & Bentalab for example. I have my doubts about whether he could deal with Pogba, Sanchez etc. Shipping them out the door may not be financially viable at Utd.
3 - He is only 6 months into a 5 year contract so it's going to cost 
4 - His chairman is Daniel Levy so it's going to cost even more than point #3. Utd have just paid out a massive package to Mourinho so add to that the cost of getting Poch and we are talking up to £100m to change managers. 

There are proven winners available who would not require compensation pay offs - Zidane, Conte and even Blanc so it seems odd to appoint an interm caretaker, essentially writing off this season in order to go for Poch in the summer.

I agree with many of your points. But specifically on point 2, I think that is a strength, not a weakness. Sir Alex was famous for getting rid of divisive and disruptive players, most notably Beckham, and keeping and getting the best from a squad who played for the team, not for themselves.

Pochettino doesn't need to ship them off, but he can make them train separately from the rest of the team, drop them from match-day squads and so on until they want to leave. That's how it's done. I would say it could be financially viable when savings from players wages are factored in.

On points 3 & 4, what you say is correct. It is also a fact though that Mr Levy has to pay for a shiny new stadium and that means regularly qualifying for the Champions League, and there are plenty of manager who can do that, but only Pochettino is currently in a position to ensure Spurs DON'T qualify. All he has to do is say drop Kane for a few important matches because he is "tired", and maybe get a little more defensive so they have a few drawn matches rather than taking all three points. I'm not saying he would, but I am saying only he could. That will also be on Levy's hands. I suspect he will agree to Pochettino's leaving but making the best deal he can from it.

Howe to Spurs? Or maybe Zidane to Spurs?

roundthebend

@deano I don't understand your point about Pochettino being in a position to ensure Spurs don't qualify for Champs League. What are you suggesting could happen?

deano

I am making the point that if (a) Manchester United asked Pochettino to be their manager and (b) he agreed, then there is very little Spurs can do at that point. They might as well negotiate the best possible compensation deal.

However if Daniel Levy brought Pochettino into his office and gave him a dressing down and telling him on pain of court action, to continue on with his contract, then that is where the risk lies.

If Levy stirred up bad blood between him and Pochettino then Pochettino is in a position to cause financial damage to Spurs by ensuring they fail to reach the Champions League. I am not suggesting he would, but I am saying he is in a position to do so (as indeed is any manager who wants to leave a club but is prevented by a chairman enforcing the contract).

In fact, even if Pochettino was honourable and did his very best, any poor showing by Spurs would start rumours that he wasn't doing his very best. If Manchester United ask him to be our manager and Pochettino wishes to do so, then the die is cast and if Daniel Levy tries to legally prevent it happening, Spurs would put Pochettino in a no-win situation which cannot be healthy for a football club, especially one with the stadium debt that Spurs have.

It would be better for Levy to accept the inevitable, negotiate the best compensation deal possible, and appoint a manager who wants to be at Spurs.

Lev

deano said:

I agree with many of your points. But specifically on point 2, I think that is a strength, not a weakness. Sir Alex was famous for getting rid of divisive and disruptive players, most notably Beckham, and keeping and getting the best from a squad who played for the team, not for themselves.

But isn't that what Mourinho tried to do in dropping Pogba? One of the take aways from this situation is that certain players are more valuable to the club than any manager and they will use that power to get their own way. Essentially any new manager going in there needs to play Pogba and build the team around him, regardless of his performances or attitude. I just don't think that fits with Pochettino's philosophy.

Having said that he did leave Southampton to join Spurs and as I said there were some bad eggs in that Spurs dressing room so maybe he backs himself to deal with these situations. The fact that Utd have appointed an interim manager clearly means they have identified a replacement that is already in a job and won't walk away immediately. That would point to Poch who won't leave mid season and definitely wants to lead Spurs into the new stadium.

deano

But Pogba isn't more valuable to Manchester United at the moment. If he was disruptive and playing like a Ballon D'Or winner every week, then he might be. But he is disruptive and playing poorly. He isn't the team on merit.

He is too slow and has not adapted to the pace of the Premier League. He is more comfortable in Italy where he get time on the ball. Move him on.

joeyowen

deano said:

But Pogba isn't more valuable to Manchester United at the moment. If he was disruptive and playing like a Ballon D'Or winner every week, then he might be. But he is disruptive and playing poorly. He isn't the team on merit.

He is too slow and has not adapted to the pace of the Premier League. He is more comfortable in Italy where he get time on the ball. Move him on.

But for many utd fans, we feel that football is second to many at the club.  He sells a massive about of shirts which helps negotiate better kit deals, and he is known worldwide. 

We are a long way away from Fergie's 'No one is bigger than the club approach'  if anything, we are opposite.

deano

joeyowen said:

deano said:

But Pogba isn't more valuable to Manchester United at the moment. If he was disruptive and playing like a Ballon D'Or winner every week, then he might be. But he is disruptive and playing poorly. He isn't the team on merit.

He is too slow and has not adapted to the pace of the Premier League. He is more comfortable in Italy where he get time on the ball. Move him on.

But for many utd fans, we feel that football is second to many at the club.  He sells a massive about of shirts which helps negotiate better kit deals, and he is known worldwide. 

We are a long way away from Fergie's 'No one is bigger than the club approach'  if anything, we are opposite.

Which is why I think we need Pochettino, because he does get rid of disruptive players who think they are bigger than the club. It is a strength and not a weakness.

menamestom

I just read on Sky that the United value went up by £170 million on news of his sacking.  Perhaps the pay off wasn't such an issue after all.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11585821/utd-value-up-170m-after-jose-exit

I think it will be Zidane in the summer btw.

deano

If it were to be Zidane, he is currently available so why not get him in now?

axisus

menamestom said:

I just read on Sky that the United value went up by £170 million on news of his sacking.  Perhaps the pay off wasn't such an issue after all.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11585821/utd-value-up-170m-after-jose-exit

Wow, incredible!

On the Zidane issue - I heard on the Radio that he would not wish to take the job right now as he does not speak English. There was a suggestion that he would want to take 6 months getting somewhere with the language before wanting to take the job. 

axisus

On the Pogba thing - he is a superb player. A good manager needs to get the best out of top players, they need to find a way. 

On a similar subject, in cricket I thought that it was pretty lame of Strauss to toss Pietersen aside just because management failed to handle him. He was still our best player at the time. 

ourmaninthenorth

axisus said:

menamestom said:

I just read on Sky that the United value went up by £170 million on news of his sacking.  Perhaps the pay off wasn't such an issue after all.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/11585821/utd-value-up-170m-after-jose-exit

Wow, incredible!

On the Zidane issue - I heard on the Radio that he would not wish to take the job right now as he does not speak English. There was a suggestion that he would want to take 6 months getting somewhere with the language before wanting to take the job. 

I can't understand a word half of the managers come out with at present, and that's not including the non-English speakers. 

guitars4you

deano said:

If it were to be Zidane, he is currently available so why not get him in now?

IMO the logic of taking on Zidane now is that he has effectively a free 'honey moon' period, during the rest of the season, to look at the situation - Portray his game plan and ideas - To see what he has and what he needs, with a view that by the time the next season starts, his plans are under way and he can hit the ground running

Otherwise if he starts in late Aug, then he could well end up wasting the first 3/4 months of the season, on a fact finding mission - Hence another wasted season in the wilderness

On that basis, I can't see the logic of waiting to appoint him as the next manager in a few months time

Lev

There is also the possibility that the Utd board are clueless, have not  done any planning and have no identified targets. So they just got Solskjear in while they decide who should be on their short list.

deano

Lev said:

There is also the possibility that the Utd board are clueless, have not  done any planning and have no identified targets. So they just got Solskjear in while they decide who should be on their short list.

In fairness it is virtually impossible for a board of directors to look into getting a new manager before sacking the old one. As soon as any feelers are put out it is splashed all over the media. I don't want to defend the Manchester United board because I find them equally as culpable as Mourinho and the under-performing players in the situation we find ourselves in, but there is no way that any club can have a succession policy in place these days otherwise it looks like they are undermining the existing manager.

scrumhalf

Any commercical enterprise worth bazillions will have contingency plans for the departure and replacement of key staff. Any decent football club will have lists of playing and managerial staff to replace any who might leave, retire or whose continued employment becomes untenable.

What I find interesting is what will happen to Solskjaer at the end of the season.

earwighoney

scrumhalf said:

Any commercical enterprise worth bazillions will have contingency plans for the departure and replacement of key staff. 

I think you over estimate Glazers Man United! 

As for Zidane, there is the presumption he would have wanted the job.  He's a sensible chap, he left Real Madrid as he knew the undertaking to rebuild their squad on their limited budgets would not be feasible for the expectations and consequently I can't see him joining Man United unless they get there house in order. 

I'm unsure about Ole Gunnar as a manager, but after 2 years of negativity on and off the pitch with Jose Mourinho just having a guy who doesn't slag off all the players, fans, club day in day out will be like drinking fresh spring water after years of drinking nothing but acrid piss.  

The guy I would like to see the most join the club isn't a manager but it'd be someone to overhaul scouting, maybe act as a DoF and that would be Paul Mitchell, who did an excellent job with Southampton & Spurs and is now at RB Leipzig.  

BigLicks67

I would like nothing more than watch Utd continue on this downward spiral. However, I think some of you are unduly pessimistic about Solskjaer I think he may turn out to be a decent manager, after all when Fergie got the job he too came from a small club up north.
As for Pochettino, he has a much better team at Spurs, so why would he move to a club that can't compete financially with their nearest neighbours?

ToneControl

I think Pogba is toxic, and should go. He doesn't even deliver results on the pitch anyway.