Why is Hendrix so revered amongst guitarists?

luscombe

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2010/sep/05/miles-davis-bitches-brew-reissue

fascinating article. Thanks for posting. Jimi will always be the Man!

frankus

The other day I forwarded a post with a comment claiming to be from Einstein, this piqued a friend who determined to shame me for a false quote.

After apologizing to me after a debate for "ruining my post" I had to think for a while, because he hadn't:

1) He'd looked a dick.
2) He didn't get that inspiration isn't information.
3) He didn't get that inspiration has a MASSIVE amount to do with charisma.
4) He didn't get that inspiration can be used to do things in a manner quite different to information.

Why charisma? Because it's so very very important to each one of us.

When Disraeli and Gladstone were both trying to be Prime Minister, they happened to both have dinner with the same woman in the week before the election and the press being what they are interviewed the lady:

"When I left the dining room after sitting next to Mr. Gladstone, I thought he was the cleverest man in England. But after sitting next to Mr. Disraeli, I thought I was the cleverest woman in England."

Who won the election? Not Gladstone, "the cleverest man in England".


All arts are about experience and how that makes us feel and Hendrix had a presence that seems to have affected an awful lot of people. He made people feel amazed, it'd be over simplification to believe that was simply due to his playing... that's like believing being a good husband simply requires a big wang.

A really good showman, creates a buzz that people leave the show and tell their friends - for magic acts that'll involve exaggerating the trick and (unwittingly) repeating all the misdirections as if they were fact... they add to the reputation and grow the charisma meaning other people turn up and are prepared to be wowed.

Is it possible to compare a Derren Brown magic act with a lesson by a GCSE Geography Lecture? "Brown was shit, he didn't even name all the states in less than a minute" ... all it does is highlight the speakers immersion in their own subjectivity... it gets a reaction here, when in reality it'd be met with an embarrassed silence for the speaker.

ThePrettyDamned

Dave_Mc said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm going to go ahead and say that's proof he's a better rhythm guitarist than lead.

Just... Doesn't sound that great to me. I know, he did tapping and widdly widdly, but randy rhoads was miles better at all of that.

Evh had some cracking rhythm guitar, though.

I disagree (and I like randy too).

Well, in keeping with the theme of the thread, you're wrong.  

Nah, I just think a lot of his solos are a bit disjointed - a bit of one thing, then a random fast thing.  Then something else, then a bit more fast stuff.  RR always seemed to have a composition for a solo.  

I do like EVH, just to be clear I just think he was a great rhythm guitarist.  Hot for Teacher is cracking rhythm guitar, and the sort of song where, even though I used to play it, I never had the right feel - he seems to be just behind the beat on some parts, with a hint of swing, and I just don't have the 'feel' for that.

Dave_Mc

Regarding the "Hendrix making tons of mistakes" thing, maybe I need to listen to more of his live stuff, but certainly on the stuff I'm familiar with, he was a killer player. I'm not listening to him going, "I don't care about those mistakes, it's the art!", I'm listening going "wow he was awesome"...

:-S

ThePrettyDamned said:

Dave_Mc said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm going to go ahead and say that's proof he's a better rhythm guitarist than lead.

Just... Doesn't sound that great to me. I know, he did tapping and widdly widdly, but randy rhoads was miles better at all of that.

Evh had some cracking rhythm guitar, though.

I disagree (and I like randy too).

(a) Well, in keeping with the theme of the thread, you're wrong.  

(b) Nah, I just think a lot of his solos are a bit disjointed - a bit of one thing, then a random fast thing.  Then something else, then a bit more fast stuff.  RR always seemed to have a composition for a solo.  

(c) I do like EVH, just to be clear (d) I just think he was a great rhythm guitarist.  Hot for Teacher is cracking rhythm guitar, and the sort of song where, even though I used to play it, I never had the right feel - he seems to be just behind the beat on some parts, with a hint of swing, and I just don't have the 'feel' for that.

(a) hehe

(b) Isn't that because Randy composed the solos? I mean I don't really care which way round people do the solos, as long as it works, but you're basically saying "Randy's solos sound more composed than EVH's because Randy composed them while EVH didn't". ) I mean, don't get me wrong, that's perfectly fine if you just prefer them, but (excepting maybe the Mr Crowley solo, admittedly I near enough creamed myself the first time I heard it) I generally prefer EVH's solos to Randy's. I just like them better. )

(c) No worries, I know. And I really like Randy, too.

(d) Oh yeah, I mean I think his rhythm playing is great, too. Just I don't think I'd say either type of playing by him is better, to me he's pretty great at both. And agreed, HFT is crazy hard, even the rhythm. In fact, maybe especially the rhythm, I'd fancy my chances better at playing the solo. )

Evilmags

Lets get a few things clear, Firstly I have heard a lot of other guitarists play Hendrix tracks, and none of them ever manage to sound a tenth a decent as Jimi. Things like Dave Grissom´s awful version of I here my train a coming just miss the whole point of the track. and seem to have a serious misconception of what the blues is. They probably also buy Gary Moore albums and think that´s Blues.

As a guitarist and improviser Hendrix pisses on the lot of them.

streethawk

Dave_Mc said:

Regarding the "Hendrix making tons of mistakes" thing, maybe I need to listen to more of his live stuff, but certainly on the stuff I'm familiar with, he was a killer player. I'm not listening to him going, "I don't care about those mistakes, it's the art!", I'm listening going "wow he was awesome"...

I think the script has been mangled as the thread went on. Completely agree. 

Dave_Mc

^

^^ I like Gary Moore too )

Bidley

 

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'm going to go ahead and say that's proof he's a better rhythm guitarist than lead.

Just... Doesn't sound that great to me. I know, he did tapping and widdly widdly, but randy rhoads was miles better at all of that.

Evh had some cracking rhythm guitar, though.

I think there's something seriously wrong with calling EVH, of all guitarists, a better rhythm player than lead. That solo doesn't sound that great because it's isolated!

Each to their own but dude.... no

TeleMarshall

I've followed this site and MR for along time, but this is my first post, so hello everyone.

There have been some odd comments on this thread. According to Koneguitarist, Hendrix was crap live, and his contemporaries thought he was great only because they were too stoned to see that he was out of tune. Subsequent fans believe that he's good simply because they’ve been told he is, and he also wasn't very influential.

In my view Hendrix has produced the greatest live performances of any guitarist. In fact, it's partly because of his live playing that he's so highly regarded by almost every major player. Of course, I'm not saying he was always great, but it's absurd to say he's crap.

I've linked to five videos below. I've put a few timings on there in case anyone just wants to get an idea of what makes him so great, and I've also put a few brief comments, though I think the music speaks for itself.

It's also worth noting that these videos show his immense ability in different styles.

1. Johnny B. Goode (Berkeley)

At 1:28 and 1:44 he plays feedback and wah-assisted single notes that really are out of this world. This is precisely what is meant when it's said that Hendrix played his entire rig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXawFuYH5gU

2. Machine Gun (Fillmore)

The most soulful and emotional guitar playing ever. The singing is also great. If you don't want to listen to the whole thirteen minutes, 3:30 to 5:30 give a good idea of what he's doing. The first notes of the solo at 4:05 and the use of feedback from 8:58 to the end are extraordinary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKzqfSXTXFI

3. Stone Free (Albert Hall)

0:00-1:20 Hendrix's ability to play complex chord and single note figures even while singing.

5:00-5:20 A wall of wah and noise until the guitar comes in from outer space.

10:05-10:50 Breathtaking single note and chordal playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygdKGd80Fqg

4.Red House (Woodstock)

Probably not his best performance of this blues track, but great footage and playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLWMhAqqXoA

5. Villanova Junction Blues (Woodstock)

Perfect meditative instrumental.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa_Rnwi-Gjo

ICBM

Evilmags said:

Firstly I have heard a lot of other guitarists play Hendrix tracks, and none of them ever manage to sound a tenth a decent as Jimi.

I'm not normally a fan of imitators, and I would agree with you except that Shawn Lane did a stunning version of All Along The Watchtower. And I don't even like Shawn Lane much either...

He used the wrong guitar, completely the wrong sound, changed quite a lot of it and it's still brilliant - because he captures the spirit of it as well as nailing some of the signature phrasing to an almost hilarious degree, while going completely nuts at the same time.



And he *isn't* playing a cover of Bob Dylan's version .

xSkarloey

Wisdom @Megii and @Sambostar. ;

Hello @TeleMarshall. Really enjoyed that post. 

At the risk of overloading the thread with vids I won't post the link to his Woodstock rendition of the Star Spangled Banner, but I've always found it to be a brilliant representation of his ability to surprise and communicate through music. 

Heartfeltdawn

ToneControl said:

Yeah, because people get less musical as they age don't they, and there's nothing meaningful to learn after you're about 25 is there?

As we all know, most of the best art and music is created by people at the start of their careers, before many are corrupted by learning too much technique and craft, which would automatically obstruct raw music. Hendrix himself would probably have lost all his mojo as he got older, like all the other top musicians before him, as he polished his live performances, thus removing the beauty of the random mistakes. With every passing year, his renditions of his old material would have become less and less musically satisfying.

That's why you can't find older players (with no tuning or accuracy issues) who play in more raw and aggressive styles than they did when they were younger. Except Jeff Beck, Fripp, Zappa, Billy Gibbons,..  

If you put on your reading glasses, you'll see that I said 'MANY older folk end up disappearing up their own posterior', not 'all older folk). 

I've not claimed that the best art is created by young musical novices so I have no idea why you've pulled that one out. Irrespective of that, there are countless examples of bands in their infancy who start raw and end up very polished. REM would be my own fanboy example. In those days, somewhat basic production was fine. They didn't need John Paul Jones or Scott Litt. 

The best art? Somewhere in the middle, artists who have had some refinement but not to the point where they lose the edge. It's a very difficult area to exist in. If it's the Beatles, then we're talking The White Album before they turned into tedium personified. 

Our tastes change as we age in a lot of cases. I just look to the guitar forums I wander through. I look at my own peers, many of whom are currently locked in a fucking Fleetwood Mac love-in when I knew them as teenage thrash metal fans. I look at TGP, a place where middle-aged men gather to praise pedals far more than 

Obviously, sir, you are an exception, for you play Brazilian samba metal through a guitar plugged into your frontal cortex. For that, I can only salute you. 

Heartfeltdawn

EricTheWeary said:

The bit about simple and raw music for the yoof is singly odd to me. The history of pop music may well have the rawness of early Elvis, Hendrix doing Wild Thing, the Sex Pistols, Run DMC or Kurt Cobain in there but there is plenty of polished music ( Cliff or One Direction or huge amounts of what has made up the charts in the last 60 years)and even quite complicated music ( Sinatra with a swinging big band or trad jazz or Prog rock have all had teen followings)in there too.

Indeed the world of one man and his slightly out of tune guitar in the shape of blues or world music or folk is seen as almost anything but targetted at a young market.I know John Lee Hooker got on TOTP in the 1960's but I doubt if it was generations of teenagers who gave him a continued and succesfull career up to his death - surely the archetype we see there is the middle aged man looking for the true meaning of Da Blooze hidden in a JLH cd.

As an intense young person who believed he was the first to discover music and wanted to tell the world about it I had an increasingly complicated set of boundaries as to what I thought was acceptable. I have some of those now, I know, but by and large the passage of time has allowed me a much more liberal approach and I can enjoy all sorts of stuff my teenage self wouldn't have liked.

The intensity of my youthfull explorations(!) means the music I loved in that period is still with me in way that almost nothing since is. But sitting in darkened rooms listening to albums isn't really what I do now so something raw and immediate is far more likely to register with me now then it was then.

And when I listen now to Jim Campilongo doing purposefully atonal bends or when I was bouncing up and down in my ska band the notion that anything less than perfectly in tune is pretty meaningless. That's train spotting, its not enjoying music as I do. 


Footnote: watching one of the members of St Etienne ( indie dance band I guess you would say) being interviewed on the televisual box about his love for Jimi Hendrix this week. The notion that to be inspired by someone meant you tried to play like them as the only outlet for that is simply wrong - Hendrix went way beyond just those who bought a wah and an old cavalry jacket.  

Extra footnote: yes, I should get on with something else now.
~O)

Yes, you should. But do it in a raw atonal way and don't stop doing it

And kudos for mentioning St Etienne too!

ThePrettyDamned

Bidley;227360" said:

 



ThePrettyDamned said:



I'm going to go ahead and say that's proof he's a better rhythm guitarist than lead. Just... Doesn't sound that great to me. I know, he did tapping and widdly widdly, but randy rhoads was miles better at all of that. Evh had some cracking rhythm guitar, though. I think there's something seriously wrong with calling EVH, of all guitarists, a better rhythm player than lead. That solo doesn't sound that great because it's isolated!Each to their own but dude.... no

It might be because I've been brought up with soloists like the fellas from trivium, petrucci and randy, and all of them (although improvisation is present) tend to at least partly compose them, giving good structure. But quite a bit of evh's stuff leaves me a bit cold, like he's just shoe horned it in and unleashed some widdly stuff.

Nothing against him, I do like him, but I really rate his rhythm more than lead. Lead wise, folks like the above, as well as Andy James do a lot more for me.

Yes, I appreciate he's important and revered, and rightly so. I just prefer a different aspect of him which is largely ignored because he could do 2 handed tapping and could pick fairly quickly.

TeleMarshall

Hi Skarloey – thanks for the welcome and glad you enjoyed the footage of Jimi

EricTheWeary

Heartfeltdawn said:

EricTheWeary said:

The bit about simple and raw music for the yoof is singly odd to me. The history of pop music may well have the rawness of early Elvis, Hendrix doing Wild Thing, the Sex Pistols, Run DMC or Kurt Cobain in there but there is plenty of polished music ( Cliff or One Direction or huge amounts of what has made up the charts in the last 60 years)and even quite complicated music ( Sinatra with a swinging big band or trad jazz or Prog rock have all had teen followings)in there too.

Indeed the world of one man and his slightly out of tune guitar in the shape of blues or world music or folk is seen as almost anything but targetted at a young market.I know John Lee Hooker got on TOTP in the 1960's but I doubt if it was generations of teenagers who gave him a continued and succesfull career up to his death - surely the archetype we see there is the middle aged man looking for the true meaning of Da Blooze hidden in a JLH cd.

As an intense young person who believed he was the first to discover music and wanted to tell the world about it I had an increasingly complicated set of boundaries as to what I thought was acceptable. I have some of those now, I know, but by and large the passage of time has allowed me a much more liberal approach and I can enjoy all sorts of stuff my teenage self wouldn't have liked.

The intensity of my youthfull explorations(!) means the music I loved in that period is still with me in way that almost nothing since is. But sitting in darkened rooms listening to albums isn't really what I do now so something raw and immediate is far more likely to register with me now then it was then.

And when I listen now to Jim Campilongo doing purposefully atonal bends or when I was bouncing up and down in my ska band the notion that anything less than perfectly in tune is pretty meaningless. That's train spotting, its not enjoying music as I do. 


Footnote: watching one of the members of St Etienne ( indie dance band I guess you would say) being interviewed on the televisual box about his love for Jimi Hendrix this week. The notion that to be inspired by someone meant you tried to play like them as the only outlet for that is simply wrong - Hendrix went way beyond just those who bought a wah and an old cavalry jacket.  

Extra footnote: yes, I should get on with something else now.
~O)

Yes, you should. But do it in a raw atonal way and don't stop doing it

And kudos for mentioning St Etienne too!

Flicking through the channels late at night and there was a bloke from St Etienne ( the band, not the footballl team)saying why Electric Ladyland was the best album ever. Hmm, I thought, I could use that...
:bz

Heartfeltdawn

Was it Pete Stanley who said that? 

koneguitarist

Hendrix playing Johnny b Goode is so far out of time with the band, and he is just rehashing chuck berry licks but louder and faster.

That is a perfect example of what I refer to with Hendrix being out of it. 

 Why aren't people posting little wing or the wind cries Mary or Hey Joe, which sounded great, tasteful playing, instead most are showing the wilder side of stage performances. 

xSkarloey

If we're after the 'less wild' version of Hendrix, I'd nominate "Third Stone from the Sun" off the debut album, and then all of 'Axis: Bold as Love', which is a lovely and varied collection of songs was barely a bum note to be heard. 

Thing is, the bloke was a complete package. He had an expansive (and at the time of his death expanding) musical imagination, and so you do get all kinds of music. 

richardhomer

"But you should have let it lie...."