Why is Hendrix so revered amongst guitarists?

richardhomer

koneguitarist;453580" said:

where do you think the likes of Robert Johnson got his chordal progressions from, simplified country music played badly

Have you actually HEARD any of Robert Johnson's playing? It was exceptionally elegant and sophisticated. This was the man who is alleged to have sold his soul to the devil in exchange for his musical gift - he was not a crude player - he had some serious technique.

ICBM

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, because you're looking at it from the point of view of playing technique and I'm looking at it from the point of view of the use of the instrument as a complete sonic tool. I think the second is a bigger picture than the first.

As for copying Beck and Clapton, read what they had to say about Hendrix! He totally changed their perception of what guitar was about. Clapton even at his most experimental only ever plays the guitar. Beck maybe goes a bit further, but not much. Blackmore gets it - it's not about playing technique, it's the whole package. If you're focusing on his tuning and timing you're missing the point - listen to the way he controls the sound directly using the guitar. It's like the step from representative art to abstract art.

Morning!

xSkarloey

Blues might have some elements from Country but it borrowed from everything. I thought a lot of the early blues players borrowed not just from country but church music and show tunes too, mainly when it came to song structure etc.

But blues unquestionably is a totally separate strand of music coming straight out of the slave experience. From blues to jazz and then on, Kurt Vonnegut called it America's greatest gift to the world.

In terms of influencing music with mass appeal worldwide for over 100 years, blues is king, and Hendrix was right in that tradition of cross fertilisation.

jonnyburgo

so the question is, who will be the next cultural icon in guitar playing? Who will be getting endless covers on virtual guitar mags in 50 years and being referred to as GOD, who has soundtracked a worldwide generation like Jimi did? and will yer mam have heard of him (or for the sake of argument, her)?

Neil

jonnyburgo said:

so the question is, who will be the next cultural icon in guitar playing? Who will be getting endless covers on virtual guitar mags in 50 years and being referred to as GOD, who has soundtracked a worldwide generation like Jimi did? and will yer mam have heard of him (or for the sake of argument, her)?

I don't think there will be anyone to rival Jimi as the complete package now or in the future.

Guitarists nowadays seem to me to be either characterless virtuoso's, or at the other end of the scale, hip, trendy types. with a whole gamut of nothing much in between regurgitating what has gone before. 

I can't ever see anyone having the same impact he did.

viz

Jimi burst on the scene, unexpected, unpredicted, and changed everything. Nobody saw it coming. That could happen again. And why not a woman indeed - good point JonnyB!

Danny1969

I was thinking to myself this morning that oddly it was hearing Hank Marvin and Apache that inspired me to want to play guitar despite being born in 69. I actually don't remember hearing a lot of Hendrix on the radio growing up but my parents taste was local radio rather than radio 1 so that might account for that

Whatever Hendrix did is was mainly just showmanship, certainly there were players like RB who could probably out widdle Hendrix in the solo'ing stakes. live it might have seemed something though but that doesn't translate to the audio only when you hear it. That's why some people are less impressed with it I think. I like some songs though and he did a great job in the studio on covers like All along the Watchtower

Hearing Van Halen had a much bigger impact on me and the people I went to school with. Some of the things he was doing didn't even sound like a guitar. The sheer aggression in Eruption back when we first heard it was breathtaking, nobody had played a guitar like that before. Sure it's old hat now but at the time Eddie was just in a league of his own and nobody else seemed to be able to play like that. I think he truly did invent new ways of playing the guitar and I can't think of anything that Vai and Satch etc do that he didn't 40 years ago. People can play faster and more intricate but he basically invented all that stuff

equalsql

Seeing all the arguments I think most of the detractors of Hendrix are missing the point completely.
As @viz says, It is so simple in the fact that he quote literally dropped a sonic-bomb into what was the music scene at the time.  "Voodoo Chile (a slight return)" was the equivalent of throwing a grenade into the vicars tea-party of blues . The impact was massive, no one had seen anything like that coming. This is why he revered so much. It took a further 10 years until another player, EVH, came along and  turned the guitar world, once again ,on it's head.  

Lixarto

shaunm said:

To put this a different way are there any guitarists that had more influence musically, culturally and on fashion? 

John Lennon.

lloyd

jonnyburgo said:

so the question is, who will be the next cultural icon in guitar playing? Who will be getting endless covers on virtual guitar mags in 50 years and being referred to as GOD, who has soundtracked a worldwide generation like Jimi did? and will yer mam have heard of him (or for the sake of argument, her)?

I'm thinking that it's probably going to be me. 

shaunm

koneguitarist said:

shaunm said:

To put this a different way are there any guitarists that had more influence musically, culturally and on fashion? 

Musically yes, fashion no!

Across all three areas there are no (lead playing) guitarists that can come close to having the effect that Hendrix had. 

To be classed as great what a musician or anyone else in the arts world must do is apeal to people who are not just fans of that particular talent and become more significant than "just a guitarist". 

@Lixarto Lennon did have more influence across all areas than almost any pop artist along with Micheal Jackson and Elvis but he was not known first and foremost as a guitarist. 

shaunm

ICBM said:

koneguitarist said:

Musically yes, fashion no!

I would say the exact opposite .

I can't think of any guitarist who has had more influence musically, with the possible exception of Charlie Christian - and that's only because he was the first to play it as a lead instrument, his sound and technique has not had such a lasting impact.

Fashion - no, Hendrix did not have a great influence. He didn't really start any new fashions, he just exaggerated existing ones, and nothing he did wear has lasted until the present day.

Unlike Sid Vicious .

I'm not sure that Jimi didn't have a fashion influence, he was a black man walking seamlessly in a white mans world (the first to do that). Jimi helped to break down social divides (one of the first black musicians interviewed on prime time US TV). Sid did a lot but he didn't do that

axisus

I kind of feel that with a question like this, if you don't already know the answer you will never really get it.

koneguitarist

Black slave songs were often simplified variations mainly based on old folk songs and hymns written by white preachers.

Skarloey said:

Blues might have some elements from Country but it borrowed from everything. I thought a lot of the early blues players borrowed not just from country but church music and show tunes too, mainly when it came to song structure etc.

But blues unquestionably is a totally separate strand of music coming straight out of the slave experience. From blues to jazz and then on, Kurt Vonnegut called it America's greatest gift to the world.

In terms of influencing music with mass appeal worldwide for over 100 years, blues is king, and Hendrix was right in that tradition of cross fertilisation.

This is one of the points I disagree with, in the pantheon of modern music, Blues is quite small compared to Country and rock and roll. Country spawned so much more and influenced so much more styles, be it from Western swing to bluegrass and all points in between. Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page first met as one heard the other could play a Scotty Moore solo in Baby lets play house by Elvis. 

Hank Marvin, who influenced countless thousands of guitarists was influenced by James Burton and the light gauge strings which arguably was the single biggest development in guitar music bar the pickup. 

Eddie Cochran showed Joe Brown the use of light strings and he showed so many others. 

So do I think Hendrix was the biggest thing in guitar ? To me I think Danny1969 was right that when EVH came out, that changed everyone's perception of what the guitar was capable of. 

Hendrix was listening to Beck exploring with sounds, listening to Clapton play at huge sustaining volumes with British stacks, and was in right place at right time.

xSkarloey

This is one of the points I disagree with, in the pantheon of modern music, Blues is quite small compared to Country and rock and roll. Country spawned so much more and influenced so much more styles, be it from Western swing to bluegrass and all points in between. Jeff Beck and Jimmy Page first met as one heard the other could play a Scotty Moore solo in Baby lets play house by Elvis. 

Hank Marvin, who influenced countless thousands of guitarists was influenced by James Burton and the light gauge strings which arguably was the single biggest development in guitar music bar the pickup. 

Eddie Cochran showed Joe Brown the use of light strings and he showed so many others. 

So do I think Hendrix was the biggest thing in guitar ? To me I think Danny1969 was right that when EVH came out, that changed everyone's perception of what the guitar was capable of. 

Hendrix was listening to Beck exploring with sounds, listening to Clapton play at huge sustaining volumes with British stacks, and was in right place at right time.

Blues music I'll grant you, perhaps it's more of a niche thing.

But blues as a musical style I think has had a massively profound influence on the global cultural life of the twentieth century. I say that because it's all part of the mix of those american 'musics of black origin', and I think that those without question have had far more impact- and have been far more easily absorbed and adapted into existing musical strands such as classical- than could ever be claimed for C+W. 

koneguitarist

Ah but you are thinking country and western not country music.

Country music has as many facets as any other music genre's, just that you are not conversant with them in same way you are with Blues. 

Does Robert Cray sound like Wilko Johnson, does BB King sound like Muddy Waters ? 

All blues. 

Country is the same, does Hank Williams sound like Bobby Bare, does the Kentucky Headhunters sound like Colt Ford?

Country spawned rock and roll and from that came rock.

Listen to Jimmie Rodgers and you have the White version of Robert Johnson or vice versa. Songs,intros and formats very similar. 

@richardhorner I listened again to Robert Johnson, as I have not listened to him for quite a few years, and I was struck by the similarities to Jimmie Rodgers, both of a similar time. Listen to them both and see for yourself, the only trouble was almost all the Robert Johnson stuff was same intro and song just different words.

DulcetJones

ICBM said:

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, because you're looking at it from the point of view of playing technique and I'm looking at it from the point of view of the use of the instrument as a complete sonic tool. I think the second is a bigger picture than the first.

This.  Exactly why I love Hendrix to this day, and why I love bands like Joy Division and Sigur Ros,  bands that don't exactly display virtuosity but convey feelings and soundscapes that fuel the imagination, although I do think Hendrix had a higher degree of virtuosity when you add the innovative use of effects with the high level of skill he had on guitar.  

koneguitarist

I am not sure where this I like virtuoso's and not feel players comes from.

Place for both as far as I am concerned and that's in Country as well. 

For Instance Luther Perkins and Brad Paisley total opposite ends of the spectrum. 

In tune, in time and listening to the band for the end result is a necessity though, which I think everyone should cherish.

richardhomer

koneguitarist;454694" said:

I am not sure where this I like virtuoso's and not feel players comes from.Place for both as far as I am concerned and that's in Country as well. For Instance Luther Perkins and Brad Paisley total opposite ends of the spectrum. In tune, in time and listening to the band for the end result is a necessity though, which I think everyone should cherish.

Because you have inferred a greater level of skill is evident among country players than blues players....

I think this is quite simple; country (and its variations) is a 'niche' music. It has vociferous adherents and detractors. For me anything more country than Mary Chapin Carpenter is 'too' country. It is not a music I associate with innovation - it is a music I associate with tradition. That is NOT a criticism btw - the same is true of folk - it is just a music that for me sits within fairly clear-cut parameters.

Sonically, blues is much more diverse - the progression between Robert Johnson and Albert King is night and day. For me blues is visceral and hits me on an emotional level that country never does. I can hear the individual in the best blues - in country, it often seems to me that the strictures of how its 'supposed to be' strip it of personality.

I don't own any Hendrix recordings - I don't actually like his music that much - but what I hear is him. It may be blues translated through a million watts, it may be a Bob Dylan song bent out of recognition, it may be rhythm playing that owes more to a soul review that heavy metal - but it is always recognisably Hendrix.

The guy redefined how guitar playing worked. He took the 'electric' element of the electric guitar to a level above and beyond his contemporaries. And I say that as someone who preferred Eric Clapton's playing. But I recognise Jimi took it further.

If this debate were about 'was Elvis or Hank Williams more important?' - the only logical answer based on quoted influence on subsequent musicians would be 'Elvis'.

Hank Marvin has had more influence than Roy Buchanan, Paul Simon has sold massively more records than Nick Drake, Mark Knopfler turned vastly more people on to playing guitar than either J J Cale or Richard Thompson - who were clearly influences.

Sometimes someone lights the flame in a widespread way. Hendrix did that - and guitar playing was never quite the same after he did.....

PolarityMan

koneguitarist said:

To me, that shows a view that is based on your musical tastes rather than factual evidence, listen to early country music and you will see where blues and its style came from.

Country music by Jimmie Rodgers and the like was all about having the blues, where do you think the likes of Robert Johnson got his chordal progressions from, simplified country music played badly, by illiterates at a time when white guys were singing about lost love and lonesome blues, the black man of the time translated it to them selves. 

One of the biggest swing jazz bands around rivalling Glen Miller and the like was Bob Wills and his Texas playboys, country like rock or blues is not just a 3 chord trick but many forms, listen to some of Eldon Shamblins solo's very jazz blues. 

Where early Blues had one guitar, country was already expanding with Banjo and Fiddles as it had moved on. Listen to Hank Williams in 46-47, apart from the absence of drums it's almost rock and roll. 

When they were playing the Honky Tonk joints around oil wells springing up all over Texas these guys were ripping it up. Same as the Blues was starting to expand around the northern cities the south was gearing up for a harder edge of country and they called it Rock and roll.

I could go on ( often I do

) but to think one rock guitarist like Hendrix had more influence than any other when even he was watching what Beck and Clapton was doing and copying it is misguided, where as Merle Travis developed a whole style of playing that countless guitarists copied and are still developing to this day.

Right off to work ! 

Morning !

Face fact.

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=Chet+Atkins&word2=Jimi+Hendrix

An order of magnitude. You are fantisizing.