Buying a car

Emp_Fab

I’m really not a brand snob.  I don’t care what name is on it as long as it’s well constructed.  I won’t deny that a significant element in my decision making (or perhaps ‘indecision’ would be more appropriate!) is the psychological effect of my redundancy.  I went from a well paid job with a bit of status and a BMW to nothing with no car.  My new job has no car, no status at all and pays six grand less.

Accordingly, I’m trying not to compound the ego bruising that would come with having to drive around in a cheaply constructed shopping car.  Again, it’s not the brand, but the impression of quality the car gives to me.  Hence my trying to find something with a few toys like heated leather etc.

The Kia I looked at yesterday was nice enough but it was like tools from Lidl...  They look the part from a distance but on closer examination, you see they’re poorly cast from cheap materials.  I don’t want to drive a car that feels like that.  I want a car that makes me feel I’m still doing OK, even if I’m on my way to a no-status job for less money.

ICBM

If Kia were poorly made they wouldn't be able to give you a 7-year warranty.

If you want to buy the best car you can afford, and your budget isn't high enough to be really picky, but you *are* being picky about things like mileage and service history, then you should probably stop worrying about brand perception. The 'cheap' far-east brands mostly have a better reputation for build quality and reliability than most of the supposedly desirable European brands.

It's like the old adage: "Better, quicker, cheaper... pick any two."

stickyfiddle

I've had a few rental Kias. Every one has been fantastically functional, and also utterly boring. They're definitely good cars.

I still love MX5s, though I can confirm my back hurt after the first 2 days of getting in and out of the one we rented. You quickly get the hang of it though, and it's totally worth it.

Budgie

stickyfiddle said:

I've had a few rental Kias. Every one has been fantastically functional, and also utterly boring. They're definitely good cars.

I still love MX5s, though I can confirm my back hurt after the first 2 days of getting in and out of the one we rented. You quickly get the hang of it though, and it's totally worth it.

We had an MX5 in the early 2000s and it was superb to drive and great fun. The only thing wrong with it was the mould that used to grow on the inside of the soft top in winter. I don't know if this has changed with more recent models (ours was the pop-up headlight version). The only other option was buying the additional, removable hard top, which would have been a real PITA to store in the Summer. Other than that, a superb car.

strtdv

I can sympathise with not liking the Kia. My brother drives a Kia Ceed. He's easily able to afford a "nicer" car but to him it's just something that needs to reliably get around with no hassle.

I was driving it last week and I could easily list a dozen things I hated about it.
-the pedal position is terrible
-the biting point on the clutch is vague and too far on the pedal travel
-the optical clarity of the rear window is terrible
-the rear view mirror magnifies things like a shaving mirror
-the gearbox has no feel whatsoever, you just sort of vaguely shove it into what you thing the right gear is and hope for the best
-the doors feel very tinny when you open and close them
-the armrest is made out of hard plastic and isn't adjustable
-the engine is gutless
-the car tends to tramline a lot
-the steering is vague and the wheel doesn't return to near centre by itself when cornering
-not a soft touch plastic in sight
-the rear parcel shelf is unbelievably awkward to put in and out

However, it's still under warranty and has given no mechanical trouble whatsoever, it returns over 50mpg, costs £30 a year in VED and is cheap to insure.

If I wanted to have a similar amount of money in a car I'd buy a Mk6 Golf because it's so much better to drive, but I'd have to live without the warranty

menamestom

Deadman said:

If I had 6 grand to spend I’d get a FDSH BMW. 10 years old LCI 3 series with high miles, well specced, big (easily and cheaply tuneable) 6 cylinder turbo diesel. You’ll get reliability, build quality, power and fun driving. 

Oh. I’ve just described my car, sorry.

Worth noting however BMW had massive issues with timing chain failures.  My neighbour bought a 2009 a while ago, then after 2 weeks the engine failed.  Cost him around £3.5k for a rebuilt engine.  Not sure of it affected the 6 cylinder, but worth reading up on if buying a Diesel BMW of a certain age.  

p90fool

Emp_Fab said:

I’m really not a brand snob.  I don’t care what name is on it as long as it’s well constructed.  I won’t deny that a significant element in my decision making (or perhaps ‘indecision’ would be more appropriate!) is the psychological effect of my redundancy.  I went from a well paid job with a bit of status and a BMW to nothing with no car.  My new job has no car, no status at all and pays six grand less.

Accordingly, I’m trying not to compound the ego bruising that would come with having to drive around in a cheaply constructed shopping car.  Again, it’s not the brand, but the impression of quality the car gives to me.  Hence my trying to find something with a few toys like heated leather etc.

The Kia I looked at yesterday was nice enough but it was like tools from Lidl...  They look the part from a distance but on closer examination, you see they’re poorly cast from cheap materials.  I don’t want to drive a car that feels like that.  I want a car that makes me feel I’m still doing OK, even if I’m on my way to a no-status job for less money.

I can and do totally sympathise with this, having had "proper" jobs for years and now earning £5 per hour less than I did in 1988, but speaking from personal experience, it's time to STOP basing your self-esteem on what tin box you're seen in at the supermarket, or how many thousands of pounds you can afford to leave rotting on the drive. 

I mean this in no way as a criticism because I've been there and I sincerely applaud your honesty, but when you give up that shallow, pointless, expensive fight and re-prioritise what makes you happy life suddenly gets much simpler. 

boogieman

Bruised ego you say? This would sooth it. 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201902255282645?advertising-location=at_cars&exclude-writeoff-categories=on&year-from=1970&maximum-mileage=200000&price-to=6000&postcode=kt172lz&body-type=Saloon&price-from=500&fuel-type=Petrol&colour=Blue&colour=Unlisted&transmission=Automatic&page=1&make=ROLLS-ROYCE&year-to=2000&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

ICBM

For what it's worth I drive a brown seven now eight year old Renault Grand Dadmobile and I don't care .

It's pretty much the top spec for the model and was the equivalent of at least £25K new. It was in excellent condition and cost me £4K because people don't think Renaults are any good. I still don't care...

And if it doesn't make me attractive to younger women I'm not married to, that wasn't even the smallest factor in the decision .

menamestom

I went from company cars, albeit vanilla models (e.g. Mondeo, Insignia), to my mother-in-law's 15 year old Astra which had been passed round the family.  Couldn't have cared less to be honest, although I missed Bluetooth.

Now I have a newish car again, I really miss the zero fucks I use to give when ditching that Astra wherever it landed.
 Didn't even lock, but nobody wanted to steal it anyway.  

Whilst a nice BMW undoubtedly makes you feel good to drive and motoring journalists enthuse about the quality of the interior trim, the point at which the car becomes part of you might be the time it's good to rough it for a while in a Kia anyway  

It's quite humbling really, the minute you get a shitter car as well, the more people you see from your past, when your ego would like to say 'look how good I'm doing' you're forced to deal with the fact you are more than your car, because not many people drive 2004 Astra's around thinking they have made it

menamestom

stickyfiddle said:

I've had a few rental Kias. Every one has been fantastically functional, and also utterly boring. They're definitely good cars.

I still love MX5s, though I can confirm my back hurt after the first 2 days of getting in and out of the one we rented. You quickly get the hang of it though, and it's totally worth it.

I think I'd have got an MX5, had it not for my wife asking where the kids were supposed to sit.  'In you car?'  was my suggestion.

mrleon83

As per @menamestom .. I went from a newish (ok 2014 ) Astra to a much older (2007) Civic,  and it too has made me way happier and more carefree.  

Probably not what the OP is going for...but... have you tried a Civic? .. you can remap the 2.2 CTDi to 198 bhp with standard parts.. so that's fun and it has tonnes of space... 

Deadman

menamestom said:

Deadman said:

If I had 6 grand to spend I’d get a FDSH BMW. 10 years old LCI 3 series with high miles, well specced, big (easily and cheaply tuneable) 6 cylinder turbo diesel. You’ll get reliability, build quality, power and fun driving. 

Oh. I’ve just described my car, sorry.

Worth noting however BMW had massive issues with timing chain failures.  My neighbour bought a 2009 a while ago, then after 2 weeks the engine failed.  Cost him around £3.5k for a rebuilt engine.  Not sure of it affected the 6 cylinder, but worth reading up on if buying a Diesel BMW of a certain age.  

Yeah worth mentioning mate, that was the 2 litre 4 pot, possibly the N47??. I avoided it completely. The 6 cyl is bomb proof but then again, there have been the dreaded swirl flap ingestion issues. Again, mine doesn't have them fitted and I checked before buying.

Another thing worth mentioning is resale values on 'good' beemers. They hold their value extremely well even into their older years.

celentium

Emp_Fab said:

Accordingly, I’m trying not to compound the ego bruising that would come with having to drive around in a cheaply constructed shopping car.  Again, it’s not the brand, but the impression of quality the car gives to me.  Hence my trying to find something with a few toys like heated leather etc.

I empathise with you on this. I haven't lost my job, but my Golf R was costing me loads to run for my new commute and it didn't make sense to me to have all that power on tap whilst sat in traffic. Sure the lanes were fun but they were also tight and busy so care had to be taken regardless.

So considering all the money that I was putting into the fuel and the value coming out the car due to the commute mileage, I decided it was silly trying to keep it as a daily driver.

After looking for a couple of weeks and struggling with the ego, I spotted a good offer for a brand new Suzuki Swift. It's petrol (didn't want a diesel) but the economy figures looked good.

Now my friends laugh at my car, but fuel is costing me £10 per 100 miles and it's a chuckable car that feels fun at far lower speeds. My bank balance after a month put the smile back on my face.

Ultimately I didn't like the thought of not being able to handle something as trivial as downgrading my car. 

Emp_Fab

ICBM said:

If Kia were poorly made they wouldn't be able to give you a 7-year warranty.

I disagree.  As long as the bits that are expensive to repair are reliable, they won’t lose money.  It’s about finish and detail - that’s where they’re saving money.  A poorly finished weld on a door is no more likely to fail than an invisible one on a Merc.  Likewise a plasticky interior - these things won’t be the cause of any warranty claims.  They have a reputation for reliability, so mechanically they are undoubtedly sound.  It’s the illusion of a high quality interior that falls flat.


Another factor is that for the past 25 years, I haven’t had any say in what car I drive.  More recently we were given choices but even then, it was a choice of maybe five cars - all of which were largely crap and with no extras.  Now I have complete freedom for the first time to pick anything I want....  and like a ex-con on parole looking at a restaurant menu, I have so many choices, it’s mind-boggling.

octatonic

Have you bought anything yet?

I don't think I've ever laboured over any decision this much.
One of us is clearly doing something wrong.

RaymondLin

Emp_Fab said:

ICBM said:

If Kia were poorly made they wouldn't be able to give you a 7-year warranty.

Another factor is that for the past 25 years, I haven’t had any say in what car I drive.  More recently we were given choices but even then, it was a choice of maybe five cars - all of which were largely crap and with no extras.  Now I have complete freedom for the first time to pick anything I want....  and like a ex-con on parole looking at a restaurant menu, I have so many choices, it’s mind-boggling.

Buy the car that wasn't on your short list from work before but always wanted to try.

It doesn't need to be a keeper, you can chop and change every 12 months if you want to.

Emp_Fab

octatonic said:

Have you bought anything yet?

I don't think I've ever laboured over any decision this much.
One of us is clearly doing something wrong.

....and we all know which one of me that is.

Wolfetone

Emp_Fab said:

I would like a car with 4 wheels that will cost me under £4,000 and won't cost me tons in tax, fuel or insurance but equally isn't a Ford Ka or other tin scooter.

Better ?   

Emp, all the SEXY cars drink fuel, cost loads of tax and cost loads of insurance......a Ford Ka it is then.....

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

I would like a car with 4 wheels that will cost me under £4,000 and won't cost me tons in tax, fuel or insurance but equally isn't a Ford Ka or other tin scooter.

Better ?   

This is where we started on March 30...