Gibson R8 or Harley Benton with Pickup Upgrades?

thegummy

TeleMaster said:

Personally I think the suggestion that they’re comparable is absolute nonsense. 

I too think it's a ludicrous comparison.

I can't claim to know the factual truth on it though, and I don't think anyone on this forum really can either.

When there's a camp who think the cheapest brand are just as good as one of the most expensive and another camp think they're not even comparable without it being absurd; regardless of which one is right just think about how wrong the other camp is lol

guitars4you

Three-ColourSunburst said:

guitars4you said:

So we buy a Harley Benton LP Style guitar for £250 ish from Thomann - Guess how much of that £250 goes into the UK economy - Either via vat, or corporation tax - Less than 1p - Sounds like a great move 

There is one reason and one reason only that Thomann operate such a line and that is profit - Make it two reasons and add exclusivity, so no  price matching - Factory to shop floor - No middle man - More profit ...

As to how much profit goes to the UK economy, if the Great British public really cared about such things they wouldn't buy so many Audis, BMWs and other foreign-made goods - including Gibsons...

Wrong - When you buy a new BMW, Audi etc in a UK showroom the vat alone will be collected as a UK transaction - The business you buy it from will collect a sale and retain a % of that sale which in turn pays sales staff, admin staff and a workshop, so all in all it will support a decent workforce in that showroom - The UK business you buy it from will pay corporation tax on their operating profit - Granted a large part of the manufacturing process will support the German economy - But the UK economy gets a cut as well - Ditto as a similar principle to any new Gibson purchased in the UK  - Regarding the Thomann example any VAT and corporation tax is payable and collected in Germany, no funding at all to the UK economy whatsoever

But as always the customer can buy what guitar they like

thegummy

Philtre said:

Three-ColourSunburst said:

As to how much profit goes to the UK economy, if the Great British public really cared about such things they wouldn't buy so many Audis, BMWs and other foreign-made goods - including Gibsons...

if the Great British public really cared about such things they wouldn't have voted for Brexit. But as 52% of Brits are complete and utter fuckwits, they did vote for it.

More than 52% - a lot of people made the right 50/50 choice but still don't have a clue about what they're voting for.

midlifecrisis

Sassafras said:

What I don't like about places like Thomann, Amazon etc is they've contributed to the death of proper retail shops. The high streets are now solely populated by estate agents, charity shops, hairdressers and nail-bars.

need more coffee shops then

midlifecrisis

i dont own what many would call expensive guitars ( iknow thats subjective) my most expensive is a gibson les paul studio, which i was very proud to own and gig with, after all it says gibson on the head. I love this guitar and have no issues with the quality. i have a mex strat and a tele which i also like but the LP iswas my main gigging guitar until 18 months ago i picked up a cheap epiphone 339, this is now my main guitar, it gets all the sounds i want, and my band like it. it did feel funny gigging it for the first couple of gigs as i had to get out of my stupid mindset that i was dropping down from a gibson to an epiphone but soon realised that no one gives a shit. The epiphone is all i really need, il not get rid of the gibson as i still love it and will gig it every now and then. my point is that as much as i like to not be a gear snob and know it doesnt matter, there is a small piece of me that likes to show gibson on the headstock, pride of ownership or just vanity i guess

thegummy

Three-ColourSunburst said:

terada said:

I don’t get the Harley Benton love to be honest. 

There are plenty of great quality cheaper instruments out there. But the house brand of a large multinational mail order company, made as cheap as possible across 20 factories staffed with people working in poor conditions strikes me as somthing I’d rather avoid.

Has it never occurred to you that the main reason for the price difference between cheap instruments and the likes of Gibson just might be that Gibson is milking its customers? After all, despite Gibson's woes the guitar side of the business is apparently still coining it.

Something to consider as a kind of psuedo evidence...

From what I've noticed, it's not the case that beginners start out thinking Gibsons are better than cheaper brands but then as they become more experienced start to use cheaper ones instead.

When I see top session players they're using Custom Shops, Andersons, PRS's if not actual vintage instruments. So it doesn't seem that those with the most experience and expertise are saving themselves lots of money because they've realised cheap brands are just as good - if anything it hints that at their level and experience they're more likely to notice the subtle benefits of going above the 2 grand mark.

Three-ColourSunburst

guitars4you said:

Wrong - When you buy a new BMW, Audi etc in a UK showroom the vat alone will be collected as a UK transaction -

I think the point you are overlooking is that, ultimately, it is making things that actually generates wealth. Vat and so on just involve shifting money around that has already been created elsewhere.

TeleMaster

thegummy said:

TeleMaster said:

Personally I think the suggestion that they’re comparable is absolute nonsense. 

I too think it's a ludicrous comparison.

I can't claim to know the factual truth on it though, and I don't think anyone on this forum really can either.

When there's a camp who think the cheapest brand are just as good as one of the most expensive and another camp think they're not even comparable without it being absurd; regardless of which one is right just think about how wrong the other camp is lol

In all honesty, I see people who can barely play say a lot of things with real authority so I tend to take anything on forums with a pinch of salt.

Before anyone gets offended I’m not talking about anyone in particular.

Freebird

TINMAN82 said:

thegummy said:

tony99 said:

rossi said:

.A Gibson doesnt make you a pro  but a HB probably never will.

Now that is an interesting theory.

Or total nonsense.

You can't con your way to being a professional musician by having a brand name guitar.

If I’m reading correctly he said “a Gibson doesn’t make you a pro”, so exactly what your saying.

Its not snobbery to suggest that someone who makes a living primarily from playing guitar probably isn’t going to choose a HB as his main tool.

I've got a different take, when I pick up my Gibson I think of all the iconic music that has been made on one, and it inspires me just holding it in my hands. I know it's all in the mind, but I wouldn't feel the same way about a HB. Having played sport at a decent level, it's a similar kind of feeling, you can push yourself beyond your own ability with the right mindset.

John Lennon famously spoke about getting a tune out of a tuba, but he never mentioned if it was a cheap tuba or expensive one. From my observations, professional musicians tend to own the best instruments, regardless of price.

BTW, I'm no gear snob, I've got a 25 year old MIJ Squier that more or less plays itself. I'm tempted to rip out the electrics & pups and refret it, as it doesn't sound all that great at the moment. It's an important guitar to me, because every musical idea I've ever had has come out of it, even though it sounds like crap when recorded!

PolarityMan

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

thegummy

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

TeleMaster

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

No it's an overdrive first and foremost but some people use it as a clean boost too because it's very transparent. 

thegummy

TeleMaster said:

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

No it's an overdrive first and foremost but some people use it as a clean boost too because it's very transparent. 

Makes more sense, I always thought it was weird that people would pay so much for a clean boost.

Not that it isn't crazy to spend that for an overdrive mind you.

Adam_MD

TeleMaster said:

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

No it's an overdrive first and foremost but some people use it as a clean boost too because it's very transparent. 

And the way most people use it the essential magic unicorn tear diodes don't even do anything.  Though I disagree about the transparent bit.

ICBM

PolarityMan said:

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

I’d be more likely to get a tone I like out of a Metal Zone. The guitar probably wouldn’t matter .

Kittyfrisk

TeleMaster said:

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

No it's an overdrive first and foremost but some people use it as a clean boost too because it's very transparent. 

What is this 'transparent' of which you speak? If you can't flaming hear it, then it it is doing sod all, no??
I don't want transparent, I want to hear what I paid for 

PolarityMan

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

Isnt a metalzone?

thegummy

Kittyfrisk said:

TeleMaster said:

thegummy said:

PolarityMan said:

I think the guitar is only maybe 20% of the overall equation anyway so lets make the whole question a bit more nuanced?

Harley benton through a klon or R8 through a metal zone. 

Isn't a Klon a clean boost?

No it's an overdrive first and foremost but some people use it as a clean boost too because it's very transparent. 

What is this 'transparent' of which you speak? If you can't flaming hear it, then it it is doing sod all, no??
I don't want transparent, I want to hear what I paid for 

Sometimes people want an audio signal to be louder without sounding any different tonally.

Kittyfrisk

Hmmm... I can do louder, I just turn things up 

But seriously, I do get it, I just get amused by the time & effort people go to to add & subtract effects to/from a sound or signal while usually describing it as 'clean' or 'transparent' when it isn't.

TeleMaster

I have a Klon KTR and it’s great. Although I don’t use it anymore. For a clean boost it’s way too expensive when there are things like the Spark or Katana mini which do the same thing. The tonal changes are minimal and I don’t think it’s worth getting bogged down in it. Plus, when you turn it up it sounds different anyway, Fletcher Munson and all that. 

Anyway, Klon KTR is a great overdrive pedal, especially for an edge of breakup type tone.