"Has it got all the paperwork?"

zepp76

When I bought my Les Paul the chap selling it apologised profusely for not having the correct COA or paper work, I told him I couldn't care less as long as the guitar is legit and plays well. I just don't get the whole case candy thing, it's pointless.

prowla

bgmartinsbridge said:

Can't wait for all these 60 and 70 year old a with twenty and thirty guitars to drop off their perch ;-) 

Cheers, dude - I'm 59 and I've got 50 guitars/basses.

prowla

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

This all seemed understandable (authenticity, care taken) until this - why ascribe a cash value to this tat? 

It's bizarre to me. But then I don't get collecting either 

It's the same as keeping replaced parts from an old guitar 'to retain the value' - why? If they needed to be replaced it's because they were knackered! Unless they have some unique dating information on them that isn't on the rest of the guitar... and then you only need one.

I always hear this as being some sort of desirable thing to do/have with an old guitar, but I've yet to see anyone actually pay a higher price just because this sort of rubbish is included.

It's even worse with amps - I sometimes get asked to keep leaking electrolytic caps or cooked resistors. What possible value can there be to keep them? I just bin them, where they belong.

I keep the bits I replace.

Last year I put the original pickup back on a Ric bass after 20 years. However, I didn't keep its original gap-tooth bridge and have recently spent a lot to get one.

ICBM

prowla said:

I keep the bits I replace.

Last year I put the original pickup back on a Ric bass after 20 years. However, I didn't keep its original gap-tooth bridge and have recently spent a lot to get one.

That’s entirely different - those are useful parts that you changed simply because you wanted to fit something else. I’m talking about keeping *useless* parts, like worn-out pots or switches that you would never want to put back because they don’t work properly.

I would keep an original pickup even if it had failed, since it could be rewound later.

fretfinder

It’s a simple fact of the used guitar market that  a Fender CS guitar without its COA, or a Gibson Custom/Historic guitar without COA, is worth a couple of hundred quid or so less than the equivalent guitar that does have its COA. People may not like that fact or may not understand it, and it may be daft, but it is an economic fact. 

jeztone2

FelineGuitars said:

With a PRS if you don't have the complete paperwork including the hangtag that hangs from one of the machineheads in store then the guitar is pretty much worthless to PRS buyers it seems.

I swear that there is possibly a blackmarket opportunity for selling blank ones just so PRS owners can actually get a sale

You used to be able to get these blank on EBay 

Whitecat

jeztone2 said:

FelineGuitars said:

With a PRS if you don't have the complete paperwork including the hangtag that hangs from one of the machineheads in store then the guitar is pretty much worthless to PRS buyers it seems.

I swear that there is possibly a blackmarket opportunity for selling blank ones just so PRS owners can actually get a sale

You used to be able to get these blank on EBay 

Legit ones?

You’d still need to make a sticker with the barcode/MODCAT as shown on the bottom left of that one... so the absence of that might indicate that the tag is a “replacement”. 

ICBM

fretfinder said:

It’s a simple fact of the used guitar market that  a Fender CS guitar without its COA, or a Gibson Custom/Historic guitar without COA, is worth a couple of hundred quid or so less than the equivalent guitar that does have its COA. People may not like that fact or may not understand it, and it may be daft, but it is an economic fact. 

No, it just means that some buyers won't be interested at all. The guitar is worth the same to anyone who doesn't care about the crap.

DrJazzTap

DefaultM said:

Once had a guy try to get £50 off a Korean Tele I was selling because I'd replaced the wiring with all USA parts. 

They do indeed walk among us 

bgmartinsbridge

@prowla - someone made the point that the vintage crash might be coming and eluded that it's based on no demand from the youth of today, and that old retirees have massive collections, some to play and some for alternative isa investments.

I simply joked that I can't wait for all the 60 70 year olds to drop off their perch, which releases all the guitars back in to the market and forces a crash. 

The fact that you've got 50 guitars vaguely backs that up.

I've got no probs with you have a huge collection and good on you and obviously I don't wish for people to literally drop of their perch :-)


And the comments would probably have been more meaningful in the Buying a vintage guitar thread. 

adampeter

fretfinder said:

It’s a simple fact of the used guitar market that  a Fender CS guitar without its COA, or a Gibson Custom/Historic guitar without COA, is worth a couple of hundred quid or so less than the equivalent guitar that does have its COA. People may not like that fact or may not understand it, and it may be daft, but it is an economic fact. 

This /\
If you don't keep the COA or equivalent you are devaluing the guitar, simples, its the first question asked when you're selling a valuable guitar, People can moan about it, but it is fact.
Buy a guitar without it and come selling time someone will have your pants down, unless it has some other provenance
Only becomes a non issue if you don't sell or buy, which i cant imagine includes many of us
Its not even something thats up for debate tbh, 

ICBM

adampeter said:

If you don't keep the COA or equivalent you are devaluing the guitar, simples, its the first question asked when you're selling a valuable guitar, People can moan about it, but it is fact.
Buy a guitar without it and come selling time someone will have your pants down, unless it has some other provenance
Only becomes a non issue if you don't sell or buy, which i cant imagine includes many of us
Its not even something thats up for debate tbh,

Sorry, but this is just wrong. Personally, I have never once asked, or been asked, whether the 'paperwork' is there, nor have I ever asked for, or given, a discount for not having it.

Some buyers seem to think it's a big deal - they tend to not be interested in the guitar at all if it doesn't have it, not even at a reduced price. Most just don't care either way - other than those who buy and sell expensive guitars on forums, possibly...

The idea that it is worth anything is only perpetrated by those who are trying to chisel a discount when they're going to buy the guitar anyway. Just say no, and if they want the guitar they'll buy it.

bgmartinsbridge

If lots if buyers think the paperwork is valuable then it is, simple. 

I used to work in retail and it always surprised me the number of people I worked with who used to say personally I do this, I do that, my wife does x.
 
That may be so, but that doesn't mean you ignore what the market/ people/ what everyone else wants, when the majority of people want something different to you. 

adampeter

ICBM said:

adampeter said:

If you don't keep the COA or equivalent you are devaluing the guitar, simples, its the first question asked when you're selling a valuable guitar, People can moan about it, but it is fact.
Buy a guitar without it and come selling time someone will have your pants down, unless it has some other provenance
Only becomes a non issue if you don't sell or buy, which i cant imagine includes many of us
Its not even something thats up for debate tbh,

Sorry, but this is just wrong. Personally, I have never once asked, or been asked, whether the 'paperwork' is there, nor have I ever asked for, or given, a discount for not having it.

Some buyers seem to think it's a big deal - they tend to not be interested in the guitar at all if it doesn't have it, not even at a reduced price. Most just don't care either way - other than those who buy and sell expensive guitars on forums, possibly...

The idea that it is worth anything is only perpetrated by those who are trying to chisel a discount when they're going to buy the guitar anyway. Just say no, and if they want the guitar they'll buy it.

I get why you have this opinion, but its fact that a valuable guitar without COA, etc is devalued
A lot of people (me included) like to buy and sell, not for any profit, just to have the buzz of a new purchase.
I would buy without COA, but would defo want money off, of course the seller can say no, but doesn't change the fact that its a tricky sell.
A guitars value is only what someone is prepared to pay for it

prowla

bgmartinsbridge said:

@prowla - someone made the point that the vintage crash might be coming and eluded that it's based on no demand from the youth of today, and that old retirees have massive collections, some to play and some for alternative isa investments.

I simply joked that I can't wait for all the 60 70 year olds to drop off their perch, which releases all the guitars back in to the market and forces a crash. 

The fact that you've got 50 guitars vaguely backs that up.

I've got no probs with you have a huge collection and good on you and obviously I don't wish for people to literally drop of their perch :-)


And the comments would probably have been more meaningful in the Buying a vintage guitar thread. 

Aye - my indignation was faux! :-)

Me, I've never bought an instrument as an investment, but I've always tried to avoid losing money on one.

In my case, I simply got to a point where I've gone "hmm, I always fancied one of those..." and it seems to have got a bit out of control.

My most recent one was a tenner at a car boot sale!

ICBM

adampeter said:

A guitars value is only what someone is prepared to pay for it

Correct - and there are buyers who are prepared to pay what it's worth anyway, so why let another one screw you down?

adampeter

ICBM said:

adampeter said:

A guitars value is only what someone is prepared to pay for it

Correct - and there are buyers who are prepared to pay what it's worth anyway, so why let another one screw you down?

Being screwed down or asking for money off is a matter of perspective
The fact is with the COA you will have more buyers interested, with all other stuff be equal(ish), hence the devalue without it.
If there was no value to the COA/Cert why do fender/gibson/PRS use them?, 

ICBM

adampeter said:

Being screwed down or asking for money off is a matter of perspective

The fact is with the COA you will have more buyers interested, with all other stuff be equal(ish), hence the devalue without it.

No, you're confusing devaluing with reducing interest. There are plenty of buyers who don't care about all the crap and will pay what the guitar is worth with or without it. Sell it to one of those.

adampeter said:

If there was no value to the COA/Cert why do fender/gibson/PRS use them?, 

To prove authenticity. Although how it really helps given a certificate is far more easily forged than a guitar, I'm not sure...

fandango

prowla said:

bgmartinsbridge said:

@prowla - someone made the point that the vintage crash might be coming and eluded that it's based on no demand from the youth of today, and that old retirees have massive collections, some to play and some for alternative isa investments.

I simply joked that I can't wait for all the 60 70 year olds to drop off their perch, which releases all the guitars back in to the market and forces a crash. 

The fact that you've got 50 guitars vaguely backs that up.

I've got no probs with you have a huge collection and good on you and obviously I don't wish for people to literally drop of their perch :-)


And the comments would probably have been more meaningful in the Buying a vintage guitar thread. 

Aye - my indignation was faux! :-)

Me, I've never bought an instrument as an investment, but I've always tried to avoid losing money on one.

In my case, I simply got to a point where I've gone "hmm, I always fancied one of those..." and it seems to have got a bit out of control.

My most recent one was a tenner at a car boot sale!

Gotcha! You're really @HarrySeven in disguise, and I claim my £5!

Blaendulais

If I want a guitar its because I want that guitar. I've played it its what I want.   If you want the tags go and join the Antiques Roadshow Forum over at www.boringgitwhoisntaplayer.co.uk