RIP: Amps

BintyTwanger77

WiresDreamDisasters said:

So much opinion masquerading as fact on the internet.

Fixed that for you.

BBBlues

sw67 said:

We have now moved to using electronic drums / helix for both guitars. It was the drummer that was pushing for electronic drums as he was fed up dragging his full kit ino pubs. We use a good yamaha pa with a sub and each guitar also has a powered speaker that we might not use in tiny venues. We are using in ears so no monitors req.

We have had a few compliments regarding the sound - i am wireless and do a soundcheck and it does sound good out front without being too loud for the venue.

The only downside is the band dont get the full playing live experience like it was with traditional amps and drums but i dont go home with my ears shot as i am standing next to a crash cymbal or pa speaker. Its a price worth paying at pub gigs but i do use my amps at home.

This is the perfect, and rational response. Some argue for one over the other like their life depends on it - why? Valve amps provide a better experience, and usually a better in the room the sound. Digital has the practical and real world solutions. Own and use both accordingly.

RIP amps? No chance. Tech is obviously still advancing fast - of course there's going to be more new digital products out at NAMM.

Danny1969

I think to be fair it's not hard to improve the sound of an average pub band. Many of them do sound terrible simply cos they often consist of members who can play their instruments and sing well enough, but are completely clueless when it comes to setting up the PA and balancing the backline. Also many bands use the shittiest PA's that really don't have any kind of clarity So they try to balance the sound with volume alone. Modellers going direct to PA might help in this environment but I don't really see any advantage over a basic combo mic'ed onstage at moderate volume.
The best thing most bands could do to improve their live sound is to pay someone to mix it for them.  

Modulus_Amps

sw67 said:

We have now moved to using electronic drums / helix for both guitars. It was the drummer that was pushing for electronic drums as he was fed up dragging his full kit ino pubs. We use a good yamaha pa with a sub and each guitar also has a powered speaker that we might not use in tiny venues. We are using in ears so no monitors req.

Plug the drums into a DAW package and record the midi outs at the next gig...... then you can replace your drummer with a laptop and drum sample package.

GrahamG

Modulus_Amps said:

sw67 said:

We have now moved to using electronic drums / helix for both guitars. It was the drummer that was pushing for electronic drums as he was fed up dragging his full kit ino pubs. We use a good yamaha pa with a sub and each guitar also has a powered speaker that we might not use in tiny venues. We are using in ears so no monitors req.

Plug the drums into a DAW package and record the midi outs at the next gig...... then you can replace your drummer with a laptop and drum sample package.

As a Guitar Player who gigs in pubs,we are constantly having Drummer availability problems, our regular drummer plays with 2 bands & our dep drummer plays with anybody.
BUT I have to say that i think the antics of semi pro pub/club musos where they where replacing drummers with machines has changed the mind set of Drummers towards Bands & has contributed a lot towards this situation with drummers.

crunchman

Danny1969 said:

I think to be fair it's not hard to improve the sound of an average pub band. Many of them do sound terrible simply cos they often consist of members who can play their instruments and sing well enough, but are completely clueless when it comes to setting up the PA and balancing the backline. Also many bands use the shittiest PA's that really don't have any kind of clarity So they try to balance the sound with volume alone. Modellers going direct to PA might help in this environment but I don't really see any advantage over a basic combo mic'ed onstage at moderate volume.
The best thing most bands could do to improve their live sound is to pay someone to mix it for them.  

A lot of sound engineers seem to have killed their hearing.  I've been to quite a few gigs with "professional" sound, and the kick drum completely overpowered everything.

PolarityMan

p90fool said:

Danny1969 said:

I couldn't give a toss about what Hendrix would use, the guy who really turned guitar on it's head 6 years after Hendrix died  is still here using valves

Re E-drums ...... I've never heard a convincing E drum snare in my life .... single shot fine but any kind of snare fill instantly gives the game away ... same with the toms although not as bad 

My wife is a drummer and will grudgingly live with an e-drum snare if she really has to, but she regards the hi-hat as the really expressive musical instrument in a barrage of "hitty things" so absolutely refuses to use an electronic one at any price or from any brand.

I was trying to convince my drummer of this the other week. He plays with the hihat fucking open 90% of the time.....caveman!

PolarityMan

sw67 said:

We have now moved to using electronic drums / helix for both guitars. It was the drummer that was pushing for electronic drums as he was fed up dragging his full kit ino pubs. We use a good yamaha pa with a sub and each guitar also has a powered speaker that we might not use in tiny venues. We are using in ears so no monitors req.

We have had a few compliments regarding the sound - i am wireless and do a soundcheck and it does sound good out front without being too loud for the venue.

The only downside is the band dont get the full playing live experience like it was with traditional amps and drums but i dont go home with my ears shot as i am standing next to a crash cymbal or pa speaker. Its a price worth paying at pub gigs but i do use my amps at home.

What genre do you play if you don't mind me asking?

sw67

PolarityMan said:

sw67 said:

We have now moved to using electronic drums / helix for both guitars. It was the drummer that was pushing for electronic drums as he was fed up dragging his full kit ino pubs. We use a good yamaha pa with a sub and each guitar also has a powered speaker that we might not use in tiny venues. We are using in ears so no monitors req.

We have had a few compliments regarding the sound - i am wireless and do a soundcheck and it does sound good out front without being too loud for the venue.

The only downside is the band dont get the full playing live experience like it was with traditional amps and drums but i dont go home with my ears shot as i am standing next to a crash cymbal or pa speaker. Its a price worth paying at pub gigs but i do use my amps at home.

What genre do you play if you don't mind me asking?

A bit of everything - U2 , Stereophonics, Killers , Kings of leon , undertones , steve earle , rem , the jam , omd , bowie and stones all very much rocked up 

Creed_Clicks

You get some bands who don't know how to play the venue/pub. The drummer will beat the kit, the singer will roar, the amps will be loud, even in a small pub.
I'm not a drummer, but always helped drag in the drum gear. I guess, if it's a small venue, set up could change. Maybe a cocktail kit or one of those mini kits, or just a kick, snare and basic set up.
As a guitarist, I think I'd need something there behind me, whether it be a powered speaker, or something acting like an "amp". It wouldn't have to be loud loud loud, but I'm used to having it behind me over the years, so that's what I'd probably do. Or have it coming back at me in the floor monitor. I don't think I could go straight into a PA without a monitor.
For me, the days of big stacks are well gone. A 1x12 or 1x10 cab is where I'm at these days.

columbo2

Is this same as the analogy for cameras... the best camera is the one you have on you.  Everyone knows an SLR will take superior shots than an iPhone, but most photos are taken with a smartphone these days.  
So when it comes to amps... I LOVE a good valve amp, and would not dream of getting rid, but for anything outside of a venue or an acoustically treated space, volume is an issue... even in a venue or rehearsal room, volume can still be an issue.
So is the best amp like device not the one the one that allows you to play and be creative in any situation?
I use an HX stomp at home these days.  I've never played as much as I have since having it.

soma1975

columbo2 said:

Is this same as the analogy for cameras... the best camera is the one you have on you.  Everyone knows an SLR will take superior shots than an iPhone, but most photos are taken with a smartphone these days.  

Most 'professional' photographs aren't using phones though. 

And every time there is a film or an ad campaign is shot on a phone they go on about it ad infinitum.

Truth is phone cameras are nowhere near the quality of even a DSLR from 8 or 9 years ago. What they DO have is a lot of software processing that make stuff look snazzy on a tiny 5" viewing platform. But chuck it into Lightroom or view it on a good quality monitor or as a print and it is plain as day. 

Maybe that ^^^ is the analogy of where we are currently at. 

thecolourbox

soma1975 said:

columbo2 said:

Is this same as the analogy for cameras... the best camera is the one you have on you.  Everyone knows an SLR will take superior shots than an iPhone, but most photos are taken with a smartphone these days.  

Most 'professional' photographs aren't using phones though. 

And every time there is a film or an ad campaign is shot on a phone they go on about it ad infinitum.

Truth is phone cameras are nowhere near the quality of even a DSLR from 8 or 9 years ago. What they DO have is a lot of software processing that make stuff look snazzy on a tiny 5" viewing platform. But chuck it into Lightroom or view it on a good quality monitor or as a print and it is plain as day. 

Maybe that ^^^ is the analogy of where we are currently at. 

But most people prefer to look at 5" phone photos most of the time. Plus, if you have new a DSLR I guarantee you my photos would not be as good as those from my phone because I know how to use my phone - wouldn't even know where to look on a DSLR. Therefore surely this analogy prices the point it's more the people using the tech than it is the tech itself.

A valve amp and a mic doesn't automatically mean it'll sound good

Greatape

crunchman said:

Danny1969 said:

I think to be fair it's not hard to improve the sound of an average pub band. Many of them do sound terrible simply cos they often consist of members who can play their instruments and sing well enough, but are completely clueless when it comes to setting up the PA and balancing the backline. Also many bands use the shittiest PA's that really don't have any kind of clarity So they try to balance the sound with volume alone. Modellers going direct to PA might help in this environment but I don't really see any advantage over a basic combo mic'ed onstage at moderate volume.
The best thing most bands could do to improve their live sound is to pay someone to mix it for them.  

A lot of sound engineers seem to have killed their hearing.  I've been to quite a few gigs with "professional" sound, and the kick drum completely overpowered everything.

I saw Femi Kuti a few years ago in Exeter and this was the problem to a 't'.

WiresDreamDisasters

Even though I said valve amps are the best, I still wanna go modelling in my band I think. I at least want to try it. The benefits are just too great.

But valve amps are the best.