Does anyone *NOT* like valve amps?

Barnezy

WiresDreamDisasters said:

UnclePsychosis said:

@ICBM ;;

Are there any brands that "tend" to have good master volumes (and any that don't) or is it very amp specific? 

Master volumes IME tend to be pretty good these days. I think there may have been a period where they weren't so good or controllable on some of the popular amps at the time (maybe in the 90s??) and there's now this lingering thing where master volumes suck tone, or aren't controllable, etc.

My experience has been they're reasonably good at doing their job now.

I heard that having crap Master Volumes was a thing brands did to make it appear their amps were loud when tested in a store, when volume was a thing. Think Fender Hotrod Deluxe. 

I've just got Friedman PT20 and cannot believe how good the master volume is. Full preamp gain and 2 on the master at bedroom volume. 

UnclePsychosis

I wish people would stop conflating digital amps, modelling amps, and solid state amps.

There's a world of difference between a JC-120 and a Line6 Spider. 

ICBM

UnclePsychosis said:

I wish people would stop conflating digital amps, modelling amps, and solid state amps.

There's a world of difference between a JC-120 and a Line6 Spider.

This. A decent solid-state amp like a JC-120 is not obsolete even if it's forty-plus years old.

I'd actually say that some older 'modern' valve amps - from the late 80s and 90s - are obsolete now, since they often make sounds that are now thought very dated, and don't do those which are currently desirable. They also often have repairability problems, including heat-damaged PCBs which are difficult and uneconomical to repair. Something like a 70s or 80s Roland, Yamaha or Peavey solid-state amp will easily outlast them - in fact, many have needed almost no maintenance since they were built.

Barnezy

UnclePsychosis said:

I wish people would stop conflating digital amps, modelling amps, and solid state amps.

There's a world of difference between a JC-120 and a Line6 Spider. 

The question is "does anyone not like valve amps?", the comparative alternatives being SS, profilers and digital moderlers. I don't think anyone has confused them. 

You've named two SS amps that are considered decent. How many decent valve amps can you name? 

A Katana is an SS amp everyone seems to rate. That has been superseded by the Katana MKII and it'll be superseded again. No one is keeping a Katana as a family heirloom. 

UnclePsychosis

Barnezy said:

UnclePsychosis said:

I wish people would stop conflating digital amps, modelling amps, and solid state amps.

There's a world of difference between a JC-120 and a Line6 Spider. 

The question is "does anyone not like valve amps?", the comparative alternatives being SS, profilers and digital moderlers. I don't think anyone has confused them. 

For starters you did, when you said solid state amps had no longevity and were obsolete in short order.

There's nothing obsolete about a Bandit or JC-120 and I'd fancy a Bandit to outlast pretty much any other amp on the planet for that matter. 

UnclePsychosis

Also, isn't Katana a digital modelling amp? You've pretty much proved my point for me there. 

Barnezy

UnclePsychosis said:

Also, isn't Katana a digital modelling amp? You've pretty much proved my point for me there. 

No. Katana is a SS amp with digital FX. So you've pretty much contradicted your own point. 

I hate it when people put SS, modelers and digital together! 

You've been able to name two SS amps that have stood the test of time. Do you really need a list of valves amp that have, to understand the point? 

ICBM

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

Danny1969

I repaired one of those Marshall SS combos. the other day, the one with the IC chip output section cooled by a fan. As badly built as that side of things is I had a play once fixed and to me it sounded more Marshall at home volumes than any of the Marshall patches in any of the modellers I've tried. I know they can sound harsh at gig volume but at low volume it sounded pretty close to a real Marshall

Seziertisch

I consider modelling technology to be similar to computer technology - sure, in 10 years time it will be horribly out of date but it’s value comes from the use you can make of it in that time.

A tube amp does one thing, a modeller can do a whole bunch of stuff, like be an audio interface and provide effects etc. If you make use of these features and it makes you more creative/productive or your life easier then that is the value in it.

I took up studies again recently and have a young family so I don’t have time for a band at the moment, but when I do get back in the saddle I’m just going to get a Katana or similar. The last band I was in, the other guitarist had a Katana and I had a tube head and cab - I was jealous of its portability (an easy one hand lift) and the level of control over the sound it offered (particularly with the floorboard) , and the fact that it was almost disposable (if it got broken/stolen at a gig, even in a worse case scenario it wouldn’t cost that much to replace, by comparison, something needs to be repaired on a tube amp, depending on what it is you are easily down a couple of hundred quid in no time).

ICBM

Danny1969 said:

I repaired one of those Marshall SS combos. the other day, the one with the IC chip output section cooled by a fan. As badly built as that side of things is I had a play once fixed and to me it sounded more Marshall at home volumes than any of the Marshall patches in any of the modellers I've tried. I know they can sound harsh at gig volume but at low volume it sounded pretty close to a real Marshall

They do. I keep meaning to salvage the preamp section of one and make a recording unit out of it...

You’re brave fixing one though - unless you specifically exclude the power section from any kind of warranty on the work.

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

I repaired one of those Marshall SS combos. the other day, the one with the IC chip output section cooled by a fan. As badly built as that side of things is I had a play once fixed and to me it sounded more Marshall at home volumes than any of the Marshall patches in any of the modellers I've tried. I know they can sound harsh at gig volume but at low volume it sounded pretty close to a real Marshall

AVT? they are emminently useable. I gigged the head version between about 2000 and 2008 and then passed it on to the singer in my band who continued to use it until about 2016.

It survived having monster poured in it twice and being set on fire by plugging it into my JVM instead of a cab. (by survived I mean it was repairable).

Barnezy

ICBM said:

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

No it's not. The amps are SS. The DSP is for FX and emulated out etc. 

thecolourbox

Barnezy said:

ICBM said:

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

No it's not. The amps are SS. The DSP is for FX and emulated out etc. 

The preamps are DSP, definitely. The power amp might be classed as Solid State, but not the preamps

monquixote

Barnezy said:

ICBM said:

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

No it's not. The amps are SS. The DSP is for FX and emulated out etc. 

Nope it's definitely cosm.

If you install sneaky amps you can use all of the amp Sims from the GT100

ICBM

Barnezy said:

ICBM said:

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

No it's not. The amps are SS. The DSP is for FX and emulated out etc. 

Yes it is . It has a discrete FET input preamp and a Class AB solid-state power amp - those are the only analogue parts. The sound generation is all digital modelling as monquixote said - based on the GT-100 and uses the same firmware.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21632.0

There is a lot of misinformation and confusion about it, which is exactly the point UnclePsychosis was making.

Barnezy

thecolourbox said:

Barnezy said:

ICBM said:

The Katana is a digital modelling amp.

No it's not. The amps are SS. The DSP is for FX and emulated out etc. 

The preamps are DSP, definitely. The power amp might be classed as Solid State, but not the preamps

No they're not.

They use Tube Logic, the same SS circuits as the Blues Cube, NextTone etc. That's why there are only 4/5 amp options. 

Key Features:

• Solid State with loads of digital effects based on Boss pedals
• Four unique amp characters: Clean, Crunch, Lead, Brown (derived from the Waza amp), and a dedicated Acoustic pre-amp
• Four or eight memories (depending on the 50 or 100 wat version) for storing and recalling all amp and effect settings
• Power Control for achieving cranked-amp tone and dynamic response at low volumes
• Katana features Tube Logic design approach found on Boss Nextone and Roland Blues Cube.

ICBM

Barnezy said:

thecolourbox said:

The preamps are DSP, definitely. The power amp might be classed as Solid State, but not the preamps

No they're not.

They use Tube Logic, the same SS circuits as the Blues Cube, NextTone etc. That's why there are only 4/5 amp options. 

Sorry, but you're wrong. Read the link I posted above.

The reason there are only 4/5 amp options is a deliberate choice by the designer/marketing department. You can get access to 28 if you use the 'Sneaky Amps' software.

https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?topic=20609.0

UnclePsychosis

Glad we've got that sorted, point thoroughly made I think. :-D

Barnezy

UnclePsychosis said:

Glad we've got that sorted, point thoroughly made I think. :-D

Not really. Proof in the form of a forum thread vs wording from Boss' website. Best case is they are hybrid, digital pre amp, SS power amp.

Let me know when you've come up with more than 2 SS amps that aren't obsolete.