Furore at Fulltone.

Daigaijin

roberty said:

So yeah, as I was saying, some white people get defensive when discussing race...

I didn't know we were discussing race! 

jfraze5150

WiresDreamDisasters said:

jfraze5150 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

jfraze5150 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

roberty said:

White people get defensive when they're reminded of their race. "Let's stop labelling people" and statements like that. The problem is that white people have the luxury of being able to ignore their skin colour. People who experience racism on an everyday basis do not. That is what is meant by privilege

Sorry. But when half the internet is going on and on about white privilege for coming up to a decade of my life now, you're wrong. I'm reminded of my race and racial issues every day, whether I want to be or not.

Ultimately, marxists gonna marx.

That really doesn’t come across very well. What an inconvenience it must be, a whole decade eh? And whether you want to be or not? Shame. 

.....

With respect, I think you’re making Robertys point for him. The opinion you express above very much, comes from a place of privilege. You may not want people to judged by those things but they are. 

A perfect response to illustrate my point. I rest my case. You and your ilk see this as a war. You don't mean to, but you do all the same.

You see it as a dichotomy between oppressed and oppressor. You see it only in terms of power and privilege. No other factors are brought into your worldview. You're so sure that you have all the answers that anyone or anything outside of your special little venn diagram is fodder for ridicule, dismissal, and antipathy.

There is no forgiveness or humility in your worldview. There is no fresh start. There are no second chances and there is no real progress. There is only endless circular condemnation, and taken to its ultimate conclusion - endless piles of bodies.

Go read The Gulag Archipelago and sort yourself out.

What are you talking about man?!

Mental. Jumping to conclusions about communism and gulags?!

‘I don’t want to think about myself as a white man’  Thats the DEFINITION of white privilege.

Anyway, I’m out. It’s getting personal. I’ve read Solzhenitsen (sp?) btw, it’s a great book. 

Maybe try some James Baldwin? The Fire Next Time is a classic. 

Who mentioned communism? I didn't. But your proclivity to separate the world into haves and have nots, privileged and non-privileged, etc... directly comes from Marxist theory. It doesn't require communism. But that is directly his approach to evaluating social differences. Science be damned. He looks at the world in these false dichotomies, and leaves out a lot of other factors. His philosophy is not multi-variant.

In the 1960's and onwards academics took his theories and applied them to other areas of life - race, gender, sex, etc. That's where your knowledge comes from. But it's not the only knowledge-set we can use.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Maybe one day you will. I hope so. It's a pretty sad way to live; always pitting groups of people against one another in your head instead of taking them for the individuals they are.

Look - I understand that there are issues with racism. I don't think the protests are wrong, but I do think the looting and destruction by people who don't give a shit about the issues is wrong. I am keenly aware of the problems that black people face in society. I have done my homework on this.

Which is precisely why I don't look at black people as a monolithic group. I don't look at white people as a monolithic group either. I have a lot of exposure to Spanish and Japanese people being that my family is composed of them. I don't look at them as a monolithic group either.

Forgive the term, but I refuse to whitewash people in this way. 

I know this is going to come across badly, but I’m a junior professor of literature at a Russell Group University. Don’t tell me where I get my knowledge from. I’ve read Marx and I’ve read a lot of other kinds of critical theory from Hobbes and Locke to Lukasc and Gramsci. I’ve also read about the French poststructuralists that I’m assuming you’re referring to?

Anyway. Most people who identify on the left that I know of in academia have a pretty nuanced understanding of Marxism. If it’s a depressing way to be it’s because it’s a utopian belief that we’re capable of better as a human race, set against the backdrop of monstrous failed attempts and what many see as a soulless modern society that places the law of capital and profit above that of human dignity. There’s plenty of humility and hope in that. In fact, it’s the hope that kills you. 

Anyway, as Gramsci said in Prison Notebooks, ‘Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.’

Have a bagin’ weekend. Right or left, turn it up to 11. Except you Nigel! 

MagicPigDetective

Hey Guys. Let's all chill. With Bill. Actually, aside form the religious element,  this demonstrates introspection and acknowledgement of faults and deeply embedded attitudes, surely not a bad thing to do?  

WiresDreamDisasters

jfraze5150 said:

Who mentioned communism? I didn't. But your proclivity to separate the world into haves and have nots, privileged and non-privileged, etc... directly comes from Marxist theory. It doesn't require communism. But that is directly his approach to evaluating social differences. Science be damned. He looks at the world in these false dichotomies, and leaves out a lot of other factors. His philosophy is not multi-variant.

In the 1960's and onwards academics took his theories and applied them to other areas of life - race, gender, sex, etc. That's where your knowledge comes from. But it's not the only knowledge-set we can use.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Maybe one day you will. I hope so. It's a pretty sad way to live; always pitting groups of people against one another in your head instead of taking them for the individuals they are.

Look - I understand that there are issues with racism. I don't think the protests are wrong, but I do think the looting and destruction by people who don't give a shit about the issues is wrong. I am keenly aware of the problems that black people face in society. I have done my homework on this.

Which is precisely why I don't look at black people as a monolithic group. I don't look at white people as a monolithic group either. I have a lot of exposure to Spanish and Japanese people being that my family is composed of them. I don't look at them as a monolithic group either.

Forgive the term, but I refuse to whitewash people in this way. 

I know this is going to come across badly, but I’m a junior professor of literature at a Russell Group University. Don’t tell me where I get my knowledge from. I’ve read Marx and I’ve read a lot of other kinds of critical theory from Hobbes and Locke to Lukasc and Gramsci. I’ve also read about the French poststructuralists that I’m assuming you’re referring to?

Anyway. Most people who identify on the left that I know of in academia have a pretty nuanced understanding of Marxism. If it’s a depressing way to be it’s because it’s a utopian belief that we’re capable of better as a human race, set against the backdrop of monstrous failed attempts and what many see as a soulless modern society that places the law of capital and profit above that of human dignity. There’s plenty of humility and hope in that. In fact, it’s the hope that kills you. 

Anyway, as Gramsci said in Prison Notebooks, ‘Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.’

Have a bagin’ weekend. Right or left, turn it up to 11. Except you Nigel! 

I like this response. It didn't come across badly at all. If we can boil it down to critical theory, what I would say is that critical theory teaches people to look past the individual and to over-emphasise (IMHO of course!) the immutable characteristics in order to frame the world in a certain light. It's very often not empirical and very often not scientifically sound. The knowledge set is not updated frequently enough and it's impervious to criticism. You see that play out in threads like this when the diluted version of critical theory that yer mam understands plays itself out (for "mam" read "Roberty"). If you're able to look at this stuff as more of a mimetic evolutionary pattern, then you'll be able to see where I'm coming from.

It's a bit like game-theory. Discovered/invented by a man suffering from acute paranoia and schizophrenia... so you have to wonder about the paranoid and schizophrenic elements of game theory.... were they there before he discovered it... it's something academics have pondered themselves.

Likewise with critical theory. Were the dichotomies present before a human put a label on them. Who knows.

I might as well complete my circuit around the alt-right bingo card (lmao!) and bring up Jordan Peterson.

His whole "lobster" theory is not that humans are similar to lobsters. It is that we share nervous system similarities with them, and in the lobster kingdom there are hierarchies brought about through environmental competition and combat, but more importantly that this directly changes the physiology of the lobster and then perpetuates the hierarchy further still.

Suffice to say - maybe critical theory is bad for black people. I think on balance it probably is.

Humans are malleable. You put ideas into their heads and those ideas grow and grow. The problem is, it's very difficult to reverse those commits - the brain isn't that adaptable. So you've got to be careful about what you put into it. Critical theory is the McDonalds bad-for-you junk-food that rots your brain. IMHO.

I hope you have a slushious weekend full of fun and frollicks and all "of age" members of AKB48 sit on your noggin' from dawn to dusk.

roberty

MagicPigDetective said:

Hey Guys. Let's all chill. With Bill. Actually, aside form the religious element,  this demonstrates introspection and acknowledgement of faults and deeply embedded attitudes, surely it's healthy to acknowledge these? 

Not bad for a snorkeldick 

Daigaijin

jfraze5150 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

jfraze5150 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

jfraze5150 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

roberty said:

White people get defensive when they're reminded of their race. "Let's stop labelling people" and statements like that. The problem is that white people have the luxury of being able to ignore their skin colour. People who experience racism on an everyday basis do not. That is what is meant by privilege

Sorry. But when half the internet is going on and on about white privilege for coming up to a decade of my life now, you're wrong. I'm reminded of my race and racial issues every day, whether I want to be or not.

Ultimately, marxists gonna marx.

That really doesn’t come across very well. What an inconvenience it must be, a whole decade eh? And whether you want to be or not? Shame. 

.....

With respect, I think you’re making Robertys point for him. The opinion you express above very much, comes from a place of privilege. You may not want people to judged by those things but they are. 

A perfect response to illustrate my point. I rest my case. You and your ilk see this as a war. You don't mean to, but you do all the same.

You see it as a dichotomy between oppressed and oppressor. You see it only in terms of power and privilege. No other factors are brought into your worldview. You're so sure that you have all the answers that anyone or anything outside of your special little venn diagram is fodder for ridicule, dismissal, and antipathy.

There is no forgiveness or humility in your worldview. There is no fresh start. There are no second chances and there is no real progress. There is only endless circular condemnation, and taken to its ultimate conclusion - endless piles of bodies.

Go read The Gulag Archipelago and sort yourself out.

What are you talking about man?!

Mental. Jumping to conclusions about communism and gulags?!

‘I don’t want to think about myself as a white man’  Thats the DEFINITION of white privilege.

Anyway, I’m out. It’s getting personal. I’ve read Solzhenitsen (sp?) btw, it’s a great book. 

Maybe try some James Baldwin? The Fire Next Time is a classic. 

Who mentioned communism? I didn't. But your proclivity to separate the world into haves and have nots, privileged and non-privileged, etc... directly comes from Marxist theory. It doesn't require communism. But that is directly his approach to evaluating social differences. Science be damned. He looks at the world in these false dichotomies, and leaves out a lot of other factors. His philosophy is not multi-variant.

In the 1960's and onwards academics took his theories and applied them to other areas of life - race, gender, sex, etc. That's where your knowledge comes from. But it's not the only knowledge-set we can use.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Maybe one day you will. I hope so. It's a pretty sad way to live; always pitting groups of people against one another in your head instead of taking them for the individuals they are.

Look - I understand that there are issues with racism. I don't think the protests are wrong, but I do think the looting and destruction by people who don't give a shit about the issues is wrong. I am keenly aware of the problems that black people face in society. I have done my homework on this.

Which is precisely why I don't look at black people as a monolithic group. I don't look at white people as a monolithic group either. I have a lot of exposure to Spanish and Japanese people being that my family is composed of them. I don't look at them as a monolithic group either.

Forgive the term, but I refuse to whitewash people in this way. 

I know this is going to come across badly, but I’m a junior professor of literature at a Russell Group University. Don’t tell me where I get my knowledge from. I’ve read Marx and I’ve read a lot of other kinds of critical theory from Hobbes and Locke to Lukasc and Gramsci. I’ve also read about the French poststructuralists that I’m assuming you’re referring to?

Anyway. Most people who identify on the left that I know of in academia have a pretty nuanced understanding of Marxism. If it’s a depressing way to be it’s because it’s a utopian belief that we’re capable of better as a human race, set against the backdrop of monstrous failed attempts and what many see as a soulless modern society that places the law of capital and profit above that of human dignity. There’s plenty of humility and hope in that. In fact, it’s the hope that kills you. 

Anyway, as Gramsci said in Prison Notebooks, ‘Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.’

Have a bagin’ weekend. Right or left, turn it up to 11. Except you Nigel! 

Thanks, appreciate the name check! 

jfraze5150

WiresDreamDisasters said:

jfraze5150 said:

Who mentioned communism? I didn't. But your proclivity to separate the world into haves and have nots, privileged and non-privileged, etc... directly comes from Marxist theory. It doesn't require communism. But that is directly his approach to evaluating social differences. Science be damned. He looks at the world in these false dichotomies, and leaves out a lot of other factors. His philosophy is not multi-variant.

In the 1960's and onwards academics took his theories and applied them to other areas of life - race, gender, sex, etc. That's where your knowledge comes from. But it's not the only knowledge-set we can use.

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Maybe one day you will. I hope so. It's a pretty sad way to live; always pitting groups of people against one another in your head instead of taking them for the individuals they are.

Look - I understand that there are issues with racism. I don't think the protests are wrong, but I do think the looting and destruction by people who don't give a shit about the issues is wrong. I am keenly aware of the problems that black people face in society. I have done my homework on this.

Which is precisely why I don't look at black people as a monolithic group. I don't look at white people as a monolithic group either. I have a lot of exposure to Spanish and Japanese people being that my family is composed of them. I don't look at them as a monolithic group either.

Forgive the term, but I refuse to whitewash people in this way. 

I know this is going to come across badly, but I’m a junior professor of literature at a Russell Group University. Don’t tell me where I get my knowledge from. I’ve read Marx and I’ve read a lot of other kinds of critical theory from Hobbes and Locke to Lukasc and Gramsci. I’ve also read about the French poststructuralists that I’m assuming you’re referring to?

Anyway. Most people who identify on the left that I know of in academia have a pretty nuanced understanding of Marxism. If it’s a depressing way to be it’s because it’s a utopian belief that we’re capable of better as a human race, set against the backdrop of monstrous failed attempts and what many see as a soulless modern society that places the law of capital and profit above that of human dignity. There’s plenty of humility and hope in that. In fact, it’s the hope that kills you. 

Anyway, as Gramsci said in Prison Notebooks, ‘Pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will.’

Have a bagin’ weekend. Right or left, turn it up to 11. Except you Nigel! 

I like this response. It didn't come across badly at all. If we can boil it down to critical theory, what I would say is that critical theory teaches people to look past the individual and to over-emphasise (IMHO of course!) the immutable characteristics in order to frame the world in a certain light. It's very often not empirical and very often not scientifically sound. The knowledge set is not updated frequently enough and it's impervious to criticism. You see that play out in threads like this when the diluted version of critical theory that yer mam understands plays itself out (for "mam" read "Roberty"). If you're able to look at this stuff as more of a mimetic evolutionary pattern, then you'll be able to see where I'm coming from.

It's a bit like game-theory. Discovered/invented by a man suffering from acute paranoia and schizophrenia... so you have to wonder about the paranoid and schizophrenic elements of game theory.... were they there before he discovered it... it's something academics have pondered themselves.

Likewise with critical theory. Were the dichotomies present before a human put a label on them. Who knows.

I might as well complete my circuit around the alt-right bingo card (lmao!) and bring up Jordan Peterson.

His whole "lobster" theory is not that humans are similar to lobsters. It is that we share nervous system similarities with them, and in the lobster kingdom there are hierarchies brought about through environmental competition and combat, but more importantly that this directly changes the physiology of the lobster and then perpetuates the hierarchy further still.

Suffice to say - maybe critical theory is bad for black people. I think on balance it probably is.

Humans are malleable. You put ideas into their heads and those ideas grow and grow. The problem is, it's very difficult to reverse those commits - the brain isn't that adaptable. So you've got to be careful about what you put into it. Critical theory is the McDonalds bad-for-you junk-food that rots your brain. IMHO.

I hope you have a slushious weekend full of fun and frollicks and all "of age" members of AKB48 sit on your noggin' from dawn to dusk.

Cheers for saying so. 

Briefly... i meant critical theory, like theory/philosophy/sociology in general. Not Critical Theory as in the Marxian, Frankfurt School study of base and power structures. 

Finally... because I’ve got shit loads of work to do, Jordan Peterson? Really dude? Is he still in a coma in Moscow because he ate steak and brain power supplements for a year? Or is he just in hiding because Zizek made an absolute fool out him? 

  

jfraze5150

Mike fucking Fulltone Fuller to critical theory, Jordan Peterson and Slavoj Zizek in only three pages. 

I shoulda practiced my guitar more and read less as a kid.

WiresDreamDisasters

 

menamestom

So to summarise, would you say OCD V1.3 or V1.4 have the more white privileged tone?

I'm trying to start a blues band you see, and want an authentic 80's Armani suit era white blues sound.

jfraze5150

menamestom said:

So to summarise, would you say OCD V1.3 or V1.4 have the more white privileged tone?

I'm trying to start a blues band you see, and want an authentic 80's Armani suit era white blues sound.

Meh, far too bland. Just go for a Clapton, drunk out his head on brandy, ranting about wogs and Enoch Powell kinda era tone. Way more authentic. 

roberty

jfraze5150

Haha! Who’da thought that a message board for middle class, middle aged white men in the U.K. would be a little reactionary eh? Astounding indeed. 

Grangousier

Maybe a list of decent OCD clones would be in order. If you need a more expensive, solidly built pedal, do JHS do one? Given that Josh has positioned himself very much on the other side, given his latest YouTube post. I'm fairly sure it's not just bandwagon-jumping - whatever his talents, I doubt whether Josh is a good enough actor to fake being that upset on camera. 

TTBZ

According to their Twitter, Guitar Center have dropped Fulltone pedals.

Jota

TTBZ said:

According to their Twitter, Guitar Center have dropped Fulltone pedals.

According to some people in the bizz, GC wasn't paying their bills and Fuller pulled all his stuff from GC before his "rant" so, that GC message is BS.

jfraze5150

For some of the lads on here that got triggered by the white privilege stuff... here’s a link to the BBC’s Newsround explanation. I know it’s aimed at kids but every day can be a school day if you open your mind.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Daigaijin

jfraze5150 said:

For some of the lads on here that got triggered by the white privilege stuff... here’s a link to the BBC’s Newsround explanation. I know it’s aimed at kids but every day can be a school day if you open your mind.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Excellent the thoroughly unbiased BBC, dripping guilt into the ears of children, truly despicable. End the telly tax, end the propaganda, end the lies, end the insufferable faux moralising. Leave them kids alone

roberty

Daigaijin said:

jfraze5150 said:

For some of the lads on here that got triggered by the white privilege stuff... here’s a link to the BBC’s Newsround explanation. I know it’s aimed at kids but every day can be a school day if you open your mind.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Excellent the thoroughly unbiased BBC, dripping guilt into the ears of children, truly despicable. End the telly tax, end the propaganda, end the lies, end the insufferable faux moralising. Leave them kids alone

U ok hon? Xx

jfraze5150

Daigaijin said:

jfraze5150 said:

For some of the lads on here that got triggered by the white privilege stuff... here’s a link to the BBC’s Newsround explanation. I know it’s aimed at kids but every day can be a school day if you open your mind.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52892949

Excellent the thoroughly unbiased BBC, dripping guilt into the ears of children, truly despicable. End the telly tax, end the propaganda, end the lies, end the insufferable faux moralising. Leave them kids alone

Haha! fuck sake Nigel. You're choking for Wetherspoons to open again eh?