Saving the planet / IPCC report on Climate Change Aug ‘21

Hottubes

viz said:

Bridgehouse said:

Here’s something for you to muse on whilst surfing the fretboard tonight.

How many of you set your domestic broadband router to switch off overnight?

Not worth it? 

Well, the average router consumes about 70Kwh/annum. Let’s assume you switched it off for a third of the average 24hr day overnight. That’s 23.3kwh per annum saved. On average 1kwh generates 300g of carbon equivalent. So, that’s 7kg of carbon per annum saved. 

If every regular fretboarder did that, then that’s 7 tonnes of carbon per year saved. If every U.K. household did it, it’s about 70,000 tonnes per annum saved. And that’s just one simple change that makes absolutely fuck all difference to most. Oh, and you’ve probably saved yourself an average of a fiver a year in electricity. 

This is so true. 

In our house the electronic stuff on standby is the only source of heating we use in winter. (In summer most stuff is on timer plugs, though I confess I hadn’t thought of the router - I’ll plug it into a timer - cheers!)

It's a Great suggestion! I always turn mine off that way i can take my tin foil hat off then. 

Hottubes

Bridgehouse said:

viz said:

Bridgehouse said:

Here’s something for you to muse on whilst surfing the fretboard tonight.

How many of you set your domestic broadband router to switch off overnight?

Not worth it? 

Well, the average router consumes about 70Kwh/annum. Let’s assume you switched it off for a third of the average 24hr day overnight. That’s 23.3kwh per annum saved. On average 1kwh generates 300g of carbon equivalent. So, that’s 7kg of carbon per annum saved. 

If every regular fretboarder did that, then that’s 7 tonnes of carbon per year saved. If every U.K. household did it, it’s about 70,000 tonnes per annum saved. And that’s just one simple change that makes absolutely fuck all difference to most. Oh, and you’ve probably saved yourself an average of a fiver a year in electricity. 

This is so true. 

In our house the electronic stuff on standby is the only source of heating we use in winter. (In summer most stuff is on timer plugs, though I confess I hadn’t thought of the router - I’ll plug it into a timer - cheers!)

Another 7kg of carbon a year saved. We can do this fretboarders! Come on!

Hopefully we won't be Taxed too Death then !!

Bridgehouse

Hottubes said:

Bridgehouse said:

viz said:

Bridgehouse said:

Here’s something for you to muse on whilst surfing the fretboard tonight.

How many of you set your domestic broadband router to switch off overnight?

Not worth it? 

Well, the average router consumes about 70Kwh/annum. Let’s assume you switched it off for a third of the average 24hr day overnight. That’s 23.3kwh per annum saved. On average 1kwh generates 300g of carbon equivalent. So, that’s 7kg of carbon per annum saved. 

If every regular fretboarder did that, then that’s 7 tonnes of carbon per year saved. If every U.K. household did it, it’s about 70,000 tonnes per annum saved. And that’s just one simple change that makes absolutely fuck all difference to most. Oh, and you’ve probably saved yourself an average of a fiver a year in electricity. 

This is so true. 

In our house the electronic stuff on standby is the only source of heating we use in winter. (In summer most stuff is on timer plugs, though I confess I hadn’t thought of the router - I’ll plug it into a timer - cheers!)

Another 7kg of carbon a year saved. We can do this fretboarders! Come on!

Hopefully we won't be Taxed too Death then !!

Watch out for the router tax…

Hottubes

Remember this load of bollocks.

Greatape

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Greatape said:

Simonh said:

monquixote said:

Simonh said:

lets look at it another way, all of the climate funding available is available for proving how bad man made climate change is, by comparison how much funding is available for proving the opposite?

Lots and lots:  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/22/top-oil-firms-spending-millions-lobbying-to-block-climate-change-policies-says-report

Also who do you think paid to hack UAE in Climategate?

Not to mention the governments and policymakers in any country or state that benefits from extracting or using large amounts of coal or oil.

$200m sure is a lot, but is about the same as just the bottom 4 sources I linked to earlier, the top funding source alone in that list was $10322m, the top 4 amount to $27307m so I am not sure it is an apples for apples comparison.

I am not saying climate change does not exist, I am saying we should not just implicitly trust what climate scientist say, if you have a problem with the application of any level of critical thinking then there is nothing more I can say.

Those experts, eh? Wasting all that time in academia, studying and what not. Where was David Icke when NASA needed him? 

What do you believe to be the more reliable position? That of the vast majority of scientists working on understanding climate, or the fossil fuel companies looking at the possibility of billions of dollars of stranded assets? 

Just because there is more than one position, it does not mean that equal weight or credence should be given to both. Otherwise we start with a 50/50 teaching time split between evolution and Creationism.

No-one expects equal weight or credence.

Equal access however.....


Do you realise how much money and energy fossil fuel companies are investing in solving climate change related problems?

Yes, a friend works for BP. A relative for Shell.   They've seen the writing on the wall, although this is relatively recent, however. The oil industry as a whole has, over time, chucked an awful lot of cash into the opposing position. And they are still heavily invested in LNG. 

Very happy for any academic research espousing a contrary position on climate change to go through peer review, etc. 

ronnyb

Perhaps we should all stop playng electric guitars and just go acoustic?

Greatape

ronnyb said:

Perhaps we should all stop playng electric guitars and just go acoustic?

I know a few people I'd like to convince of that..

Bridgehouse

ronnyb said:

Perhaps we should all stop playng electric guitars and just go acoustic?

I suspect the carbon footprint of an acoustic guitar would be far greater than an electric guitar… especially if played though a small battery powered amp.. 

WiresDreamDisasters

Greatape said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Greatape said:

Simonh said:

monquixote said:

Simonh said:

lets look at it another way, all of the climate funding available is available for proving how bad man made climate change is, by comparison how much funding is available for proving the opposite?

Lots and lots:  https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/22/top-oil-firms-spending-millions-lobbying-to-block-climate-change-policies-says-report

Also who do you think paid to hack UAE in Climategate?

Not to mention the governments and policymakers in any country or state that benefits from extracting or using large amounts of coal or oil.

$200m sure is a lot, but is about the same as just the bottom 4 sources I linked to earlier, the top funding source alone in that list was $10322m, the top 4 amount to $27307m so I am not sure it is an apples for apples comparison.

I am not saying climate change does not exist, I am saying we should not just implicitly trust what climate scientist say, if you have a problem with the application of any level of critical thinking then there is nothing more I can say.

Those experts, eh? Wasting all that time in academia, studying and what not. Where was David Icke when NASA needed him? 

What do you believe to be the more reliable position? That of the vast majority of scientists working on understanding climate, or the fossil fuel companies looking at the possibility of billions of dollars of stranded assets? 

Just because there is more than one position, it does not mean that equal weight or credence should be given to both. Otherwise we start with a 50/50 teaching time split between evolution and Creationism.

No-one expects equal weight or credence.

Equal access however.....


Do you realise how much money and energy fossil fuel companies are investing in solving climate change related problems?

Yes, a friend works for BP. A relative for Shell.   They've seen the writing on the wall, although this is relatively recent, however. The oil industry as a whole has, over time, chucked an awful lot of cash into the opposing position. And they are still heavily invested in LNG. 

Very happy for any academic research espousing a contrary position on climate change to go through peer review, etc. 

20 years BP and Shell have been working on solutions to move away from fossil fuels. I don't think you're giving them the credit they deserve.

ICBM

WiresDreamDisasters said:

20 years BP and Shell have been working on solutions to move away from fossil fuels. I don't think you're giving them the credit they deserve.

Now, maybe. When the shit has finally, obviously hit the fan and it's too late to avert all but the most extreme effects.

But this hasn't always been their approach...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/30/climate-crimes-oil-and-gas-environment

(This is specifically referring to Exxon, but you can guarantee it applies to all of them - science is universal.)

It's pretty terrifying really - they knew over 40 years ago that there was an impending risk to the climate from their industry, and chose to do worse than nothing - to actively suppress the evidence their own scientists had uncovered.

Note to climate change denialists: *these were scientists working for oil companies*.

WiresDreamDisasters

ICBM said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

20 years BP and Shell have been working on solutions to move away from fossil fuels. I don't think you're giving them the credit they deserve.

Now, maybe. When the shit has finally, obviously hit the fan and it's too late to avert all but the most extreme effects.

But this hasn't always been their approach...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/30/climate-crimes-oil-and-gas-environment

(This is specifically referring to Exxon, but you can guarantee it applies to all of them - science is universal.)

It's pretty terrifying really - they knew over 40 years ago that there was an impending risk to the climate from their industry, and chose to do worse than nothing - to actively suppress the evidence their own scientists had uncovered.

Note to climate change denialists: *these were scientists working for oil companies*.

Which backs up my prior point about funding.

Kittyfrisk

Bridgehouse said:

ronnyb said:

But I’ve had no problems since I’ve left it on.

Might be the router itself…..

An upgrade, migration to an new ISP or an interrupted connection will cause a reset of DLM (automated Dynamic Line Management), which can mean slower speeds. Over a few stable days speed should return (with the DLM still testing) and where it can reduce the SNR margin, it will if the line is stable, to the point you will be getting the highest sync possible. 

 Should the line be seen by the DLM as being unstable, like by switching off the router at night, DLM will intervene and increase the margin, forcing down the speed until the line is stable.
 So the line speed can be made slower while switching the router off/on, hence the ISP 's advice to leave it switched on.
Admittedly this is not as likely with fibre connections, but not everyone has them yet.

Bridgehouse

Kittyfrisk said:

Bridgehouse said:

ronnyb said:

But I’ve had no problems since I’ve left it on.

Might be the router itself…..

An upgrade, migration to an new ISP or an interrupted connection will cause a reset of DLM (automated Dynamic Line Management), which can mean slower speeds. Over a few stable days speed should return (with the DLM still testing) and where it can reduce the SNR margin, it will if the line is stable, to the point you will be getting the highest sync possible. 

 Should the line be seen by the DLM as being unstable, like by switching off the router at night, DLM will intervene and increase the margin, forcing down the speed until the line is stable.
 So the line speed can be made slower while switching the router off/on, hence the ISP 's advice to leave it switched on.
Admittedly this is not as likely with fibre connections, but not everyone has them yet.

I’ve had exactly this conversation with school ISP providers - apparently they don’t implement DLM on leased line fibres or FTTP

TTony

ICBM said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/30/climate-crimes-oil-and-gas-environment

(This is specifically referring to Exxon, but you can guarantee it applies to all of them - science is universal.)

It's pretty terrifying really - they knew over 40 years ago that there was an impending risk to the climate from their industry, and chose to do worse than nothing - to actively suppress the evidence their own scientists had uncovered.

Note to climate change denialists: *these were scientists working for oil companies*.

But that's the way our world works.

Whether it's asbestos companies in the 40s/50s
Tobacco companies in the 50s/60s
Oil companies in the 60s/70s
Opioid manufacturers in the last decade

It's all about making profit now, and let someone else worry about - and pay for - the consequences later.




And don't get me started about the 5G manufacturers nowadays.   

Kittyfrisk

Bridgehouse said:

Kittyfrisk said:

Bridgehouse said:

ronnyb said:

But I’ve had no problems since I’ve left it on.

Might be the router itself…..

An upgrade, migration to an new ISP or an interrupted connection will cause a reset of DLM (automated Dynamic Line Management), which can mean slower speeds. Over a few stable days speed should return (with the DLM still testing) and where it can reduce the SNR margin, it will if the line is stable, to the point you will be getting the highest sync possible. 

 Should the line be seen by the DLM as being unstable, like by switching off the router at night, DLM will intervene and increase the margin, forcing down the speed until the line is stable.
 So the line speed can be made slower while switching the router off/on, hence the ISP 's advice to leave it switched on.
Admittedly this is not as likely with fibre connections, but not everyone has them yet.

I’ve had exactly this conversation with school ISP providers - apparently they don’t implement DLM on leased line fibres or FTTP

Apparently around 8-9% of domestic users have access to FTTP... don't know about leased line stats.
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/broadband-statistics
Hence the persistence of the 'don't turn it off' advice.

ThePrettyDamned

I had an interesting conversation about game theory today. It started with dilemmas in tournament poker, but led us to the tragedy of the commons and how this relates to the current state of affairs (which goes beyond climate). It's really interesting to apply these theories to the way the world works (I'm not an expert but game theory is used and studied a lot, I understand).

Be interesting to see if anything changes. 

Kittyfrisk

ThePrettyDamned said:

I had an interesting conversation about game theory today. It started with dilemmas in tournament poker, but led us to the tragedy of the commons and how this relates to the current state of affairs (which goes beyond climate). It's really interesting to apply these theories to the way the world works (I'm not an expert but game theory is used and studied a lot, I understand).

Be interesting to see if anything changes. 

See your viewpoint & I'll raise you.

WiresDreamDisasters

@TTony ;

TTony

I could see you in something like that @WiresDreamDisasters ... 




... but only from a 'safe distance. 

Emp_Fab

He'd still be writing scrolls about me.  He can't stop.  He's obsessed with me - or at least it seems that way.