e-scooter crash

sinbaadi

ICBM said:

The situation at present is ridiculous and makes the law an ass, because it's openly flouted. They need to be made legal, because then they can be insured, and more effectively regulated and policed. If they aren't legal to use then the only sensible alternative is to completely ban them from sale.

But it's not actually the technology that's the problem - there's no real difference in outcome here from if the child had been hit by a pushbike.

I think electric scooters and ebikes encourage more reckless riding than "push" counterparts, simply because it's so effortless to ride them fast, and they don't even create any commotion, it's like they can do it covertly.

You'd either have to be pedaling like a nutter or have an ICE not so long ago.

Jimbro66

Stratavarious said:

We can put up fabric covers over pedestrianised areas too..

Won't be needed when we all live under ground

digitalscream

crunchman said:

Change the law on Ebikes so that they can legally provide assistance up to 20 mph to encourage them rather than scooters.

This seems like a reasonable solution.

Haych

Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

Sassafras

You should be able to walk along a public FOOTPATH in a park without having to dodge these entitled pricks.

RaymondLin

Might have to start walking with a Roman Shield.

Stratavarious

Jimbro66 said:

Stratavarious said:

We can put up fabric covers over pedestrianised areas too..

Won't be needed when we all live under ground

Yep.  Cool down there... best place to be in a heatwave... but not a flood..

I am an occasional caver.

Yorkie

crunchman said:

Rain isn't a big issue.  Just get some decent waterproofs.

Aye. And be careful, because you can also get a bad GAS with waterproof gear  

Stratavarious

Iamnobody said:

euan said:

There was 24k deaths and serious injuries on the roads last year, just in case you want to get annoyed about something that is actually significant.

It’s worth breaking the numbers down before we get too annoyed.

Deaths:  1580

Seriously injured can range from a cut or broken limb to being left in a vegetative state. 

My best mate is paralysed from the neck down from a cycling accident.    Many serious ones do not even make the stats.  Estimated ten times higher unreported injuries with no police record.

Bridgehouse

Iamnobody said:

euan said:

There was 24k deaths and serious injuries on the roads last year, just in case you want to get annoyed about something that is actually significant.

It’s worth breaking the numbers down before we get too annoyed.

Deaths:  1580

Seriously injured can range from a cut or broken limb to being left in a vegetative state. 

More importantly, that number has dropped from the late 70’s at nearly 7000 deaths per annum to an average of 1600 for the last decade. There’s a significant increase in traffic and road miles done, so safety has improved massively, mostly due to safety initiatives such as seatbelts, air bags, speed cameras etc etc.

We are talking about a transport method which is currently completely unregulated - a recipe for a much higher accident rate. 

crunchman

Haych said:

Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

Come back when you have a more sensible idea.

drofluf

crunchman said:

Haych said:

Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

Come back when you have a more sensible idea.

Did you miss that @Haych was referring to e-bikes/scooter? I'd say that it was a sensible idea to have some form of assessment before you let a 9 year old out on a motorised vehicle.

euan

Bridgehouse said:

We are talking about a transport method which is currently completely unregulated - a recipe for a much higher accident rate. 

The point being that that accident rate and risks are much smaller absolute numbers which is actually that all that matters. You could put in a massive effort of regulation and policing in ebike, escooters, skateboarding, cycling, walking and make almost no indent to serious injury or deaths caused by these methods of mobility.

Or you could apply the same amount of effort into policing distracted driving, the masses of uninsured, unlicensed or banned drivers current on our roads(numbers that are ever increasing as the cost of motoring has gone up) and significantly reduce those numbers.

These accidents pop up and they are tragic, but because they are uncommon the get a massive amount of coverage. Rarely do the equivalent incidents like van drivers reversing onto pavements and killing toddlers gather the same outrage.

Zoolooter

There isn’t enough protection for cyclists let alone escooters. Tip of the iceberg as someone already said, many more deaths and life changing injuries. I’m appalled at the whole scooter issue from the way people ride them to zero legislation.

RaymondLin

crunchman said:

Haych said:

Have e-bikes and e-scooters come under the A1 license category, or maybe category P/Q.

So are you want to make my 9 year old daughter get a license before I can take her out for a bike ride?

Come back when you have a more sensible idea.

Is she riding an e-bike capable of going 30mph? if so, yes.

If not, carry on.

Grangousier

I'm kind of unreasonably pissed off by pretty much anyone I encounter on wheels on the pavement. It always used to be bad, but it's got worse - during lockdown more and more cyclists just hopped up onto the pavement, and more and more of them are people delivering stuff (and so focused on getting to their destination as quickly as possible). 

You don't have to go much faster than most people walk (I used to run a lot) to realise that most people wander around in a dream most of the time and are basically chaotic. I used to have people wander backwards into my path, for example. They're not safe to do anything fast around. 

At the other extreme, apart from the pollution, I have hardly any problem with motorised traffic (I don't even have a license, by the way) - it's predictable and stays in its stream almost all the time. It usually stops at red lights and pedestrian crossings and if a vehicle isn't going to you can usually tell well in advance and stay out of the way. 

Put wheels on someone, though - bike, ebike, scooter, skateboard, whatever - what you have is traffic that thinks it's a pedestrian. There are no rules, and they could be coming from anywhere, going to anywhere and going as fast as possible. For me the bikes are more of a problem because there are more of them - zipping past me at high speed virtually every time I venture out; at least once a week I meet one of them coming the other way on the pavement going around a corner. There's a short cut they take near me - rather than go the slightly longer way around on the road, they hop up on the pavement, around a blind corner, through the tables and chairs outside a cafe, around another blind corner then back onto the road again. It's kind of scary, because every time I walk around that corner going the other way it's like russian roulette. 

This is a herd of people who think they're making individual clever decisions. Everybody thinks they're in control, that they know best, so if they just cut through here, it will be fine. Red light? Just hop up on the pavement and through the pedestrians crossing. What are they complaining about? I didn't hit them. 

Except people are very bad at making decisions, especially on the fly. There are traffic rules because of that - people need to follow the rules when things aren't difficult so that when something goes wrong they have the habit in place. 

There was a park I'd walk through on the way to work, back when I went in to work, with a long straight path running through it. And because it was a long straight path, you'd have cyclists going full pelt along it, with dogs and kids running around, and I've basically been waiting for something like this to happen. That it was an e-scooter in the news report is just a minor detail as far as I'm concerned - one entitled dick on wheels is basically the same as another.

I liken it to a bloke whirling a hammer around his head - I feel I'm allowed to be nervous, and not very consoled to be told it's not a very big hammer and he hardly ever hits anyone. Just not hitting someone isn't good enough, frankly. 

I'm near the South Bank in London. There are several flavours of rental bike around here - traditional and electric - and they've just put in racks of e-scooters. It's getting quite scary. The rental types are completely out of control - a cyclist friend was giving me scary stories of having to deal with these people on the cycle superhighways. Basically, what I was saying about people being asleep except at 15mph around other people going twice that. 

But there it is. It's a coming culture war bullshit thing, and what adds insult to ... currently only a different insult, thank god ... is that I'll be on the wrong side, the Faragist side. And I hate that.  

Whether it would solve it, I don't know, but people on wheels need to be personally responsible for where the wheels go - from articulated lorries all the way down to roller skates - and when things go wrong it needs to be very, very expensive for the wheel-rider. 

Another alternative is that when someones riding wheels in a pedestrian space, people should be encouraged to knock them off. If the wheel-rider is more than inconvenienced by this, they're going too fast. 

Goodness, that's a bit of a rant. 

sweave

Interesting use of technology for the rental scheme in Cambridge. Leaving aside the requirement to be over 18 and have a provisional licence, the scooters are gps managed so (1l have automatic reduction in max speed in busy areas (2l stops you even going to some areas (3) limits where you can park it. 
Maybe this could be rolled out nationally with all e-scooters having to have the tech installed and local councils deciding on slow and no-go zones.

WiresDreamDisasters

I'll put my hands up - I ride on the pavement. Not when I'm by myself, but when I am picking up my daughter from school and she sits on the little seat I attached to my bike.

I do it because of the stats I posted before - cyclists are not a huge danger to anyone on the road or pedestrians. But cars and HGV's are a huge danger to everyone, and I rather not have to scoop up pieces of my daughters brain from the road as a momento of our time together.

Some roads I'm fine with. But there's no way in hell I'm riding down or across Edgware Road with a 4 year old child sitting on a bike.

I don't run red lights, I always signal, and I am always considerate of the space I am using. But the pavement thing.... I'm happy to break the bylaw for the greater good.

I think e-scooters are quite a different thing to a bike, and I gave my reasons before.

crosstownvamp

I nearly hit one in the car a few weeks ago, late at night, black jeans, black hoodie, no lights. I yelled at him as I went past to get bloody lights. I was about a foot away from squashing him.

On most walking routes cyclists naturally slow down with their wider handle bars, scooter drivers never slow down. Crazy the speed they go at.

A guy came off one all by himself round here last week, had to be helicoptered out,  he's still in a coma.

Grangousier said:

Another alternative is that when someones riding wheels in a pedestrian space, people should be encouraged to knock them off. If the wheel-rider is more than inconvenienced by this, they're going too fast. 

FFS.. that's beyond stupid

digitalscream

crosstownvamp said:

Grangousier said:

Another alternative is that when someones riding wheels in a pedestrian space, people should be encouraged to knock them off. If the wheel-rider is more than inconvenienced by this, they're going too fast. 

FFS.. that's beyond stupid

While I agree that's stupid, I have been known to...not move as much as I could for a cyclist who's riding straight at me on the path.

If there's nobody else around who could get injured, I'll move as much as I'd have to for a pedestrian. What I won't do is flatten myself into a hedge so the twat can build up a bit more speed as they go past when there's a perfectly good road a foot away.