e-scooter crash

euan

I mean, Milngavie feels like a suburb of Edinburgh...

There was also that popup COVID cycle lane in London which got removed because of local campaign insisting it was causing increased congestion. When it was removed it was just full of parked cars 23 hours a day and made no difference to the traffic.

chillidoggy

hollywoodrox said:

Car drivers being a different breed is utter bollocks , after nearly 40 years on motorbikes  I have never known such an unaware , dangerous set of people ever.  The amount I had pull out in front of me every single day without looking , due to them just not caring, talking on the phone , preoccupied with a conversation with other occupant etc.  Women ,men ,old young all as bad , 

Just for balance, the British public are also subjected to total lunatics riding motorbikes. The high street where I live is like a poxy bike race-track, not long ago a 90 year old bloke was killed when one of our indigenous Margate morons on a souped-up bike hit him. Police estimated he was doing 70 in the 30 limit. Weaving in and out of traffic appears to be the norm, which makes me wince because at some point they’re gonna come a cropper. And this is after all the bike training and experience riders have had.

Not saying car drivers are all perfect, or a different breed because I see idiocy from locals every day, but idiot bikers only have themselves to blame for some of their accidents, they’re not all caused by car drivers, are they?

Clecko

I cycled over Westminster Bridge after leaving work last night, in 16th gear and giving it some welly because I knew my wife had taken delivery of some new underwear, when a guy on a massive electric skateboard comfortably passed me while looking at his phone. I can only imagine the text he was reading about what his wife had received in the post. 

hollywoodrox

chillidoggy said:

hollywoodrox said:

Car drivers being a different breed is utter bollocks , after nearly 40 years on motorbikes  I have never known such an unaware , dangerous set of people ever.  The amount I had pull out in front of me every single day without looking , due to them just not caring, talking on the phone , preoccupied with a conversation with other occupant etc.  Women ,men ,old young all as bad , 

Just for balance, the British public are also subjected to total lunatics riding motorbikes. The high street where I live is like a poxy bike race-track, not long ago a 90 year old bloke was killed when one of our indigenous Margate morons on a souped-up bike hit him. Police estimated he was doing 70 in the 30 limit. Weaving in and out of traffic appears to be the norm, which makes me wince because at some point they’re gonna come a cropper. And this is after all the bike training and experience riders have had.

Not saying car drivers are all perfect, or a different breed because I see idiocy from locals every day, but idiot bikers only have themselves to blame for some of their accidents, they’re not all caused by car drivers, are they?

I see your point , the  plastic bike guys are a bit mad , but you could lump them into the same category as these idiots who drive round in poorly pimped  up hatchbacks .

but the normal car drivers I’ve had pullout speaking on the phone have ranged from young to old 
at least regular bikers aren t going to be yapping on the phone or texting While riding 

hollywoodrox

Clecko said:

I cycled over Westminster Bridge after leaving work last night, in 16th gear and giving it some welly because I knew my wife had taken delivery of some new underwear, when a guy on a massive electric skateboard comfortably passed me while looking at his phone. I can only imagine the text he was reading about what his wife had received in the post. 

Probably on tik Tok  a guy recently got a load of supplies off a soft drink company after going viral riding along playing a fleetwood Mac song 

chillidoggy

hollywoodrox said:

chillidoggy said:

hollywoodrox said:

Car drivers being a different breed is utter bollocks , after nearly 40 years on motorbikes  I have never known such an unaware , dangerous set of people ever.  The amount I had pull out in front of me every single day without looking , due to them just not caring, talking on the phone , preoccupied with a conversation with other occupant etc.  Women ,men ,old young all as bad , 

Just for balance, the British public are also subjected to total lunatics riding motorbikes. The high street where I live is like a poxy bike race-track, not long ago a 90 year old bloke was killed when one of our indigenous Margate morons on a souped-up bike hit him. Police estimated he was doing 70 in the 30 limit. Weaving in and out of traffic appears to be the norm, which makes me wince because at some point they’re gonna come a cropper. And this is after all the bike training and experience riders have had.

Not saying car drivers are all perfect, or a different breed because I see idiocy from locals every day, but idiot bikers only have themselves to blame for some of their accidents, they’re not all caused by car drivers, are they?

I see your point , the  plastic bike guys are a bit mad , but you could lump them into the same category as these idiots who drive round in poorly pimped  up hatchbacks .

but the normal car drivers I’ve had pullout speaking on the phone have ranged from young to old 
at least regular bikers aren t going to be yapping on the phone or texting While riding 

Given that most newish cars these days have Bluetooth, I fail to understand why they do it. But I’ve also seen people in cars that definitely do have connectivity, holding phones while their driving, which also beat me as to why. Even my lowly Focus has it, I get in, it connects automatically, and that’s it. 

jonnyburgo

I'm expecting more accidents with those silent electric cars, they're going to have to have fake engine noise or something, in a "Shared space" it is so easy to walk out in front of one. 

crunchman

jonnyburgo said:

I'm expecting more accidents with those silent electric cars, they're going to have to have fake engine noise or something, in a "Shared space" it is so easy to walk out in front of one. 

As a cyclist, silent electric cars are probably a good thing.  It will make most pedestrians look before they cross the road.  At the moment, they don't hear anything and a lot just step out without looking.

ICBM

Electric cars aren’t that much quieter than ICE ones unless they’re going very slowly or the ICE one is accelerating - at normal road speeds, tyre and wind noise is the bulk of it. I was quite surprised the first few times one passed me how little difference there was.

TheBigDipper

I'm struggling with so many of the arguments "for" and "against", TBH.

When I commuted from the Isle of Dogs to Spitalfields by bicycle, I used the cycling superhighway along Cable Street. The biggest hazards to me were the lycra warriors coming in to Canary Wharf who were "in the peloton" coming the other way and then suddenly popping out (without any vision of oncoming cyclists) into my lane going the other way so they could overtake. Otherwise it was a great experience, better than bus/DLR and useful exercise. 

Where I live now has a growing number of "shared roadways" for bicycles and pedestrians. "Sporting" cyclists don't use them because they say the shared roadways have bad surfaces and so they need to put their expensive wheels on the road. There is a 10mph speed limit on these shared roadways, but I'm sure that's not a factor for these cyclists in their decision-making. E-scooter riders say they need to use the shared roadways because the roads have potholes. Surely they can't both be right? 

Car drivers get angry because they're slowing down to 10mph for long periods because they cannot safely overtake a cyclist on the road riding right next to an empty shared roadway. Pedestrians get angry because they're having to keep an eye out for two-wheelers that creep up at speed (it's relative - 10mph is over 3x faster than 3mph) from behind and don't ring their bells (or don't have one). Some pedestrians are blind, of course. Or deaf. Or both. 

The law is clear for the users of shared roadways, BTW - pedestrians have priority and two-wheelers need to look after pedestrians as they "share" the roadway. 

I have to say I don't see a problem in e-scooters using the shared roadways if they're limited to 10mph, have a bell and are ridden responsibly by people who have the appropriate level of expertise and judgement to do so. Most of which doesn't exist right now. 

In Bournemouth and Poole they're trialling e-scooters rented from Beryl Bikes right now. They're easy to spot, as they're usually two-up (illegal) on footpaths through public parks (illegal) and being used by riders who aren't old enough to have the driving license required to unlock and rent them in the first place (illegal). 

Ho hum.... :-) 

euan

Can you point out to me the law on the two up thing?

Hattigol

One thing not yet pointed out.

People are saying that the current 'typical' escooter rider is of the joyiding, inconsiderate variety. Bear in mind that save for official rental ones, these things are illegal. So, I may be generalising here, but I'd wager that in a Venn diagram of illegal and inconsiderate riders, there'd be a fairly large overlap. 

So, if they do become legalised, we may find that riders generally are a lot more considerate than the current lot.

Personally, I think they look a great, eco-friendly way of getting around. Properly regulated, I think they would be a fantastic way of getting people out of cars, which is what we need to do, right?

TheBigDipper

euan said:

Can you point out to me the law on the two up thing?

It's illegal to use a privately-owned e-scooter in a public space at all. The only legal use in a public space is a scooter rented as part of the current trials taking place around the country. Failure to comply with the rules of the trial makes your use illegal.

The rules are here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-users

euan

Having read the rules I take it you mean two up as in two aboard rather than two abreast?

As always the issue here is policing of regulations, not the actual thing being regulated.

TheBigDipper

euan said:

Having read the rules I take it you mean two up as in two aboard rather than two abreast?

As always the issue here is policing of regulations, not the actual thing being regulated.

That's it. 

Kittyfrisk

euan said:

Having read the rules I take it you mean two up as in two aboard rather than two abreast?

As always the issue here is policing of regulations, not the actual thing being regulated.

Sigh. It always comes back to sex...

chillidoggy

Hattigol said:

One thing not yet pointed out.

People are saying that the current 'typical' escooter rider is of the joyiding, inconsiderate variety. Bear in mind that save for official rental ones, these things are illegal. So, I may be generalising here, but I'd wager that in a Venn diagram of illegal and inconsiderate riders, there'd be a fairly large overlap. 

So, if they do become legalised, we may find that riders generally are a lot more considerate than the current lot.

Personally, I think they look a great, eco-friendly way of getting around. Properly regulated, I think they would be a fantastic way of getting people out of cars, which is what we need to do, right?

If they become legalised, presumably they’d have to be fitted with registration plates, indicators, and some method of alerting any pedestrians up ahead that they’re just about to be involved in a 30mph pile-up.

I also think it will open the floodgates to the great unwashed who might have been teetering on the brink of acquiring one. Knowing they’re legal means stealing one and making a clean getaway is one less thing on the charge sheet.

Ironically, I actually think the concept is a good one. Were they legal I might even buy one. But in reality they’ll be impossible to police, with more chance of winning the lottery than getting nicked, and as a result will be a threat to both pedestrians and other road users.

mbe

Mobility scooter user here (I can handle the sarcasm ). 

My scooter is for pavement/footpath use only. It's a Class 2 restricted to 4mph as it is illegal to drive faster than 4mph on pavement. They also must be fitted with a dead-man's brake if for example I go off into a Jazz trance or something.

Class 3 mobility scooters can drive on the road restricted to 8mph (15mph in Europe). For pavement use they must stick to 4mph (usually a preset control) They have to be registered with DVLA and comply with lighting and signalling regulations.

I admit there are bad mobility scooter drivers who drive their Class 3 scooters on pavement at 8mph which is illegal and also dangerous.