The Doctor Who thread

bingefeller

UnclePsychosis said:

bingefeller said:

Sorry, not anti-woman, but this gender equality for characters is mad. He's a Time Lord nor a Time Lady. What's next, Mrs Holmes?

That's the end of an iconic show and the BBC needs the TV licence revoking now, they are pathetically political correct no one is watching their shows they are not fit for purpose.  What absolute nonsense, Dr Who is male: how can he be re-formed as a woman? It's like a male actor playing Wonder Woman. I'm all for gender equality but this is ridiculous - more PC crap. Will the Cybermen now have to become Cyberpersons?

Fucking hell... chill out dude. The Time Lords are fictional aliens who travel through the infinities of space and time in what is essentially a kids TV show. Nothing about it should get anyone this worked up. 

monquixote said:

bingefeller said:

Sorry, not anti-woman, but this gender equality for characters is mad. He's a Time Lord nor a Time Lady. What's next, Mrs Holmes?

That's the end of an iconic show and the BBC needs the TV licence revoking now, they are pathetically political correct no one is watching their shows they are not fit for purpose.  What absolute nonsense, Dr Who is male: how can he be re-formed as a woman? It's like a male actor playing Wonder Woman. I'm all for gender equality but this is ridiculous - more PC crap. Will the Cybermen now have to become Cyberpersons?

Steady dude, you're getting froth on me

Sorry guys, I was just picking some top comments from the Daily Mail site and pasting them here.  :-(

UnclePsychosis

Fretwired said:

UnclePsychosis said:

So how come all the people rage quitting because a time lord is going to be played by a female actress didn't rage quit when Michelle Gomez got on board? 

You don't get it. I did rage when Mary Poppins arrived .. great actor wasted with a poor part, woeful lines and dodgy scripts. The Master was supposed to be evil .. she wasn't scarily at all. She looked like she'd walked off the set of Downton Abbey. What next .. Daleks screaming .. "integrate, integrate .. we want to be loved" ..

My complaint isn't directly that a woman got the role. Just a woman whose a member of the Islington luvies .. she's white, young, pretty - she's safe and bland. It's as exciting as a prawn cocktail and totally predictable from the likes of Moffat and co. I expect the stories won't improve and the whole thing will continue as before.

But go on call me sexist ... it would make my day!

This is an utterly bizarre complaint to make after Tennant, Smith, Eccleston, McGann...

Could they have picked a more "exciting" woman to play the part? Probably. Is it weird to get upset now about  "safe" BBC casting decisions in a BBC show thats had fifty years plus of "safe" casting decisions? Definitely. 

digitalscream

UnclePsychosis said:

Similarly, a black James Bond would be cool so long as he was British, suave, and bad-ass. Being white isn't important. A female James Bond wouldn't work because James Bond is a womaniser and thats an important part of the character. 

Why wouldn't that work?

bacchanalian

Fretwired said:

bacchanalian said:

Surely the FretBoard irony meter has gone into fully saturated overdrive. I cannot believe anyone can get so worked up and also try to read so much into the casting decision.

I have been a life long Sci Fi fan and Doctor Who is a moderately entertaining tea time show. However, if having a female Doctor becomes a gateway for my daughter to become interested in Sci Fi, I will be very happy. 

Why? Sounds quite sad to me if that's what it takes ... does the same apply to music?

What is sad is that I am wasting my time replying.

I think it probably is the same for music. From the point of view of developing an interest in music young girls will identify more with female musicians.

UnclePsychosis

bingefeller said:

Sorry guys, I was just picking some top comments from the Daily Mail site and pasting them here.  :-(

I did wonder...

Apologies! 

digitalscream

bacchanalian said:

Fretwired said:

bacchanalian said:

Surely the FretBoard irony meter has gone into fully saturated overdrive. I cannot believe anyone can get so worked up and also try to read so much into the casting decision.

I have been a life long Sci Fi fan and Doctor Who is a moderately entertaining tea time show. However, if having a female Doctor becomes a gateway for my daughter to become interested in Sci Fi, I will be very happy. 

Why? Sounds quite sad to me if that's what it takes ... does the same apply to music?

What is sad is that I am wasting my time replying.

I think it probably is the same for music. From the point of view of developing an interest in music young girls will identify more with female musicians.

I don't believe that's true at all. I don't read too many interviews, but to take a couple of guitarists off the top of my head...Nita Strauss and Nili Brosh - both said that they didn't care about the gender of the guitarists they wanted to emulate, they just wanted to play like people who sounded good.

stickyfiddle

monquixote said:

bingefeller said:

Sorry, not anti-woman, but this gender equality for characters is mad. He's a Time Lord nor a Time Lady. What's next, Mrs Holmes?

That's the end of an iconic show and the BBC needs the TV licence revoking now, they are pathetically political correct no one is watching their shows they are not fit for purpose.  What absolute nonsense, Dr Who is male: how can he be re-formed as a woman? It's like a male actor playing Wonder Woman. I'm all for gender equality but this is ridiculous - more PC crap. Will the Cybermen now have to become Cyberpersons?

Steady dude, you're getting froth on me

More than anything else I just wish I could give this more than one lol.

Rabs

While I grew up with Pertwee and Baker my favourite Doctor Who was actually John Hurt...  Would loved to have seen a whole series with him R.I.P....

UnclePsychosis

digitalscream said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Similarly, a black James Bond would be cool so long as he was British, suave, and bad-ass. Being white isn't important. A female James Bond wouldn't work because James Bond is a womaniser and thats an important part of the character. 

Why wouldn't that work?

Well I guess it could work but I suspect that a womanising female James Bond being able to get almost literally every single woman she encounters into bed within 15 minutes of meeting might require even more suspension of belief than even a James Bond film would normally require. Its hard enough believing that male James Bond can seduce heterosexual women that easily, without also having to believe that a female James Bond is also able to seduce all of the heterosexual women she encounters.

Unless you're talking about a female James Bond who goes around seducing men. That could be interesting...   

digitalscream

UnclePsychosis said:

digitalscream said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Similarly, a black James Bond would be cool so long as he was British, suave, and bad-ass. Being white isn't important. A female James Bond wouldn't work because James Bond is a womaniser and thats an important part of the character. 

Why wouldn't that work?

Well I guess it could work but I suspect that a womanising female James Bond being able to get almost literally every single woman she encounters into bed within 15 minutes of meeting might require even more suspension of belief than even a James Bond film would normally require. Its hard enough believing that male James Bond can seduce heterosexual women that easily, without also having to believe that a female James Bond is also able to seduce all of the heterosexual women she encounters.

Unless you're talking about a female James Bond who goes around seducing men. That could be interesting...   

That's just it - there are plenty of ways around it, most of which would require significant suspension of disbelief, but consider your initial reaction

TimmyO

digitalscream said:

TimmyO said:

digitalscream said:

TimmyO said:

I applaud the creativity deployed by those seeking not to admit their own sexism, even to themselves.

Whatever you do definitely don't watch the Battlestar Galactica reboot. 

...and if women are angry or annoyed about it?

Labelling anyone not happy about this as "sexist" seems to me to be a particularly lazy way to think.

Well if you think that a woman can't be sexist this is going to be an even tougher debate.

Out of interest, what would you label a view that something was automatically wrong because of the sex of the person? 

Off the top of my head...and not just keeping this to gender...what do you think about these?

Idris Elba playing Queen Victoria
Martin Freeman playing BA Baracus
Ooooo...here's a good one...Scarlett Johansson as Major Mira Killian

How sexist or racist are you now?

C'mon, you have to admit, this is about the BBC's "commitment to diversity" (which appears in almost all of the BBC's articles and news reports about this) more than it is about the dramatic impact or writing.

It's not sexist to think certain roles are inappropriate for women, just as certain roles are inappropriate for men. I don't want a bloke playing Miss Marple any more than I relish the prospect of a woman playing ol' Doc. I'm applying the same rule to both genders, so...how does that make me sexist, exactly?

It's odd how weakass this is but ok:

Let's start with Dr Who being a fictional character who regenerates in to a different form every few years.

Queen Victoria was a real person. I think that about covers that one. 

Freeman as Baracus? Entirely doable - look at BSG. Retain the character traits that are important to the plot and if the actor has the ability, yes.

I had to google the last one but it seems that's already a thing. I don't get the joke. 

And as for this:

"It's not sexist to think certain roles are inappropriate for women, just as certain roles are inappropriate for men. I don't want a bloke playing Miss Marple any more than I relish the prospect of a woman playing ol' Doc. I'm applying the same rule to both genders, so...how does that make me sexist, exactly?"

If you can't hear what's wrong with that then you're a lot less intelligent that I ever gave you credit for.  (clue: it's the very definition of sexism lol) 

guitarfishbay

There's not been as much seducing in the Craig Bond stuff vs Moore/Connery era Bond

Craig's Bond was massively different to the camp Bond of yesteryear - and his films are generally quite good... stuff can change and still be good.

I'm more concerned about the lack of Mary Berry on Bake-Off...

chillidoggy

Does all this mean I'll finally be able to get an appointment with the doctor? If not, then I couldn't care less.

digitalscream

TimmyO said:

If you can't hear what's wrong with that then you're a lot less intelligent that I ever gave you credit for.  (clue: it's the very definition of sexism lol) 

...and again with the insults.

Definition of sexism: "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender". I think what you're talking about is the pop-culture definition, whereby it only applies to discrimination against women...which in itself is discrimination.

There is absolutely no discrimination in what I said - applying the same rule to both genders, which (since you brought it up) is the very definition of gender equality. Don't let that get in the way of your laughter, though.

axisus

This thread is fun. I need more popcorn

TimmyO

digitalscream said:

TimmyO said:

If you can't hear what's wrong with that then you're a lot less intelligent that I ever gave you credit for.  (clue: it's the very definition of sexism lol) 

...and again with the insults.

Definition of sexism: "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender". I think what you're talking about is the pop-culture definition, whereby it only applies to discrimination against women...which in itself is discrimination.

There is absolutely no discrimination in what I said - applying the same rule to both genders, which (since you brought it up) is the very definition of gender equality. Don't let that get in the way of your laughter, though.

lol

No, that's just being sexist twice to 2 different groups.

UnclePsychosis

digitalscream said:

UnclePsychosis said:

digitalscream said:

UnclePsychosis said:

Similarly, a black James Bond would be cool so long as he was British, suave, and bad-ass. Being white isn't important. A female James Bond wouldn't work because James Bond is a womaniser and thats an important part of the character. 

Why wouldn't that work?

Well I guess it could work but I suspect that a womanising female James Bond being able to get almost literally every single woman she encounters into bed within 15 minutes of meeting might require even more suspension of belief than even a James Bond film would normally require. Its hard enough believing that male James Bond can seduce heterosexual women that easily, without also having to believe that a female James Bond is also able to seduce all of the heterosexual women she encounters.

Unless you're talking about a female James Bond who goes around seducing men. That could be interesting...   

That's just it - there are plenty of ways around it, most of which would require significant suspension of disbelief, but consider your initial reaction

Well, my initial reaction was that it wouldn't work. Then I thought about it for more than twenty seconds and realised it was fine. Maybe one day these outraged Doctor Who fans will be adult enough to do the same about a shapeshifting alien.  

chillidoggy

Hang on a minute.

Does this mean that Sambostar is not the next doctor? WTF?

 I mean, he's weird enough, and is almost certainly a time-traveler.

TimmyO

TimmyO said:

digitalscream said:

TimmyO said:

If you can't hear what's wrong with that then you're a lot less intelligent that I ever gave you credit for.  (clue: it's the very definition of sexism lol) 

...and again with the insults.

Definition of sexism: "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender". I think what you're talking about is the pop-culture definition, whereby it only applies to discrimination against women...which in itself is discrimination.

There is absolutely no discrimination in what I said - applying the same rule to both genders, which (since you brought it up) is the very definition of gender equality. Don't let that get in the way of your laughter, though.

lol

No, that's just being sexist twice to 2 different groups.

Honestly I think you need to go away and have a think about it - you're making a fool of yourself 

digitalscream

TimmyO said:

digitalscream said:

TimmyO said:

If you can't hear what's wrong with that then you're a lot less intelligent that I ever gave you credit for.  (clue: it's the very definition of sexism lol) 

...and again with the insults.

Definition of sexism: "prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender". I think what you're talking about is the pop-culture definition, whereby it only applies to discrimination against women...which in itself is discrimination.

There is absolutely no discrimination in what I said - applying the same rule to both genders, which (since you brought it up) is the very definition of gender equality. Don't let that get in the way of your laughter, though.

lol

No, that's just being sexist twice to 2 different groups.

Treating everybody the same is being sexist twice?

Wow, that's some world-class word-twisting you've got going on there. Everywhere else in the world, that's considered equality.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gender-equality