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juansolo

ThePrettyDamned said:

Of course, without any name players or a pgs demo, it could be impossible - I wonder how @juansolo 's work would change if pgs offered him a deal. Imagine them demoing the gilnourizer.

LOL if I actually wanted to make a living out of making pedals I'd have to either make loads of them and knock them out cheap or few and give DAM/Cornish a run for their money price wise As it is, I generally double the price of the parts (that we pay) to get what I charge for the pedal (essentially my labour cost). It's usually below minimum wage considering the time taken on the big ones (I make the least out of them for the effort required), and there's two of us doing it... In 5 years since I've actually kept track of the money, we've made a grand total of... Not a sausage.

I have huge respect for anyone who gets into pedal building in the UK as a way to make a living. Because every way I've looked at it, it just isn't a valid career path for me. Shame as I quite enjoy it (otherwise I wouldn't do it), so I just keep it as a self funding hobby.

meltedbuzzbox

ICBM said:

randomhandclaps said:

The thing is there is a certain amount of misinformation and negative mythology spread around the internet by folks opening up pedals and going "Oh it's got an opamp and clipping diodes so it's obviously a Tubescreamer rip off!".  The Timmy being a prime example of this poorly judged internet expertise where if you take such a black and white view of circuits the everything would be a Tubescreamer, Rat or Fuzz Face etc. rip off.  In that sense I do understand why some may feel "Judge my circuit on sound rather than appearance." and be tempted to employ goop.  If Paul Cochrane had gooped the Timmy and no-one had ever looked underneath you wouldn't have people accusing him of making just another Tubescreamer which anyone who actually tried it would know it is not.

(Assuming the reverse-engineered circuits available on the net are correct, which I don't have any reason to doubt.)

because the internet is full of bullet proof fact...

Gassage

Just re Pete and goop, I asked him about this once and he said I'll do you one without; the primary reason is to prevent damage in transit. @randomhandclaps - which builder is this that you speak of? Links?

ICBM

meltedbuzzbox said:

ICBM said:

(Assuming the reverse-engineered circuits available on the net are correct, which I don't have any reason to doubt.)

because the internet is full of bullet proof fact…

There are several versions of the circuits which have been worked out by different sources and agree with each other, and agree with what you can physically see inside the pedals… hence why it's useful to be able to.

VimFuego

juansolo said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Of course, without any name players or a pgs demo, it could be impossible - I wonder how @juansolo 's work would change if pgs offered him a deal. Imagine them demoing the gilnourizer.

LOL if I actually wanted to make a living out of making pedals I'd have to either make loads of them and knock them out cheap or few and give DAM/Cornish a run for their money price wise As it is, I generally double the price of the parts (that we pay) to get what I charge for the pedal (essentially my labour cost). It's usually below minimum wage considering the time taken on the big ones (I make the least out of them for the effort required), and there's two of us doing it... In 5 years since I've actually kept track of the money, we've made a grand total of... Not a sausage.

I have huge respect for anyone who gets into pedal building in the UK as a way to make a living. Because every way I've looked at it, it just isn't a valid career path for me. Shame as I quite enjoy it (otherwise I wouldn't do it), so I just keep it as a self funding hobby.

not a pedal maker here, but I do make and grow stuff for sale, and IME to make any money at it you have to work yourself in conditions that would make a child labourer making tee shirts in a Bangladeshi sweatshop feel sorry for you and start up a facebook campaign in your support.

juansolo

VimFuego said:

not a pedal maker here, but I do make and grow stuff for sale, and IME to make any money at it you have to work yourself in conditions that would make a child labourer making tee shirts in a Bangladeshi sweatshop feel sorry for you and start up a facebook campaign in your support.

You speak the truth man. The sad reality is I can make shitloads of cash sat afront a computer screen working for arseholes that I can barely tolerate, doing a job that had become tedious to the point I was watching my soul slowly wither and die. I may be over exaggerating, but it was enough for me to quit two years ago Quest next year is to find something to do that I enjoy that someone will pay me something reasonable to do (I'm not expecting to ever earn what I did in IT ever again).

We shall see!

randomhandclaps

@Gassage I won't broadcast the name here mainly because he has spammed enough forums with the same bollocks that I don't want to give the name even more internet space.  However here is the original thread -

 http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/13403/pete-cornish-worth-it

It is somewhat useless though as he edited out his comment in that thread.  Wazmeister may recall the exact details.  He also successfully asked for the thread pushing his own pedal to be deleted after I posted links to his Instagram and Twitter etc. clarifying the bollocks.

Gassage

You hellish keyboard warrior! PM me some of the linkages of which you speak.....

randomhandclaps

@Gassage I don't really understand Instagram but looking it seems at lot of the photos are now two old to show.  However I'll send you a YouTube link.  To stress the guy whose video it is is completely innocent, but scroll down and look at the top comment.  Baring in mind this was someone who claimed to be running a successful and busy pedal range and had spent years developing his own improvement of Cornish's pedal, as well as criticizing Pete Cornish for be ignorant of electronics.  Note that the YouTube comment says posted 6 months ago and his ad and comments were posted on here 5 months ago.

I just don't get how people thing "I'll use the internet to sell my shit!" but then don't figure that it means folks can check their stories and history.

Iamnobody

VimFuego;346941" said:

not a pedal maker here, but I do make and GROW stuff for sale, and IME to make any money at it you have to work yourself in conditions that would make a child labourer making tee shirts in a Bangladeshi sweatshop feel sorry for you and start up a facebook campaign in your support.

You might want to keep that under your hat. And watch out for the police helicopters...

randomhandclaps

VimFuego said:

not a pedal maker here, but I do make and grow stuff for sale, and IME to make any money at it you have to work yourself in conditions that would make a child labourer making tee shirts in a Bangladeshi sweatshop feel sorry for you and start up a facebook campaign in your support.

Precisely why I won't buy from British manufacturers.  It's just pure exploitation.

Heartfeltdawn

ICBM said:

I'm still curious to know whether the Timmy or the Zendrive came first though, because the circuits are so nearly identical apart from the clipping components I find it hard to believe it's a coincidence.

(Assuming the reverse-engineered circuits available on the net are correct, which I don't have any reason to doubt.)

The Tim was Paul Cochrane's first pedal. Not sure when it first came out but there are forum mentions from the first half of 2003. My Tim is dated 9/2/2004. 

In 2003 Hermida had his first pedal, the Mosferatu, out. 

http://hermidaaudio.com/wp/support-2/frequently-asked-questions/

Q: What’s the story behind the Zendrive?

A: While casually making repairs for friends and local music shops in 1998, Alfonso Hermida fell in love with the tone in Robben Ford’s version of “Golden Slumbers” onCome Together – Guitar Tribute To The Beatles Vol. 2. The unique sound and playing style served as inspiration for developing a pedal that could achieve Ford’s sound as closely as possible. After five years of research and development, the first pedal,Mosferatu was produced in 2003. Gene Baker of Fine Tuned Instruments passed the Mosferatu along to Ford who liked it but thought it had too much gain and was too dark for him. In speaking with Baker, Hermida discovered that Ford was “kind of a Zen guy.” This was all Hermida needed to know. He revisited an earlier pedal design which resulted in three-knob pedal he named Zendrive. The Zendrive was sent to Ford but Hermida did not hear any feedback for some time…until he started receiving emails from guitarists in countries where Ford was touring. Hermida continued working on a four-knob Zendrive and the design hasn’t changed since 2004.

From what I can see, the Tim was out before the Zendrive which wasn't out until 2004 and (I think) the second half of that year. Timmy prototypes were around in the first quarter of 2004. Scroll down that link and you'll see tTim V1. 

So it may well have been Tim - Zen Drive - Timmy with very similar release times for the Timmy and Zen Drive 

Heartfeltdawn

Dave_Mc said:

Wow. Read his post now (not the whole thread ) ). That does take a lot of guts, to give credit where it's due.

...and no amount of balls to bullshit your way this long to so many. 

But he has come clean. I will give him credit for that. 

Props to those people who investigated the Vertex gear thoroughly. 

No props to the TGP mods for being pussies as usual. 

Dave_Mc

^ Oh yeah absolutely, that's a good point ) As you said, he had to have some cojones to do what he did already )

And agreed on your last 3 lines too. When I said "It took guts", that's what I meant- not that it excuses everything, or makes it right (though giving refunds will go some way to doing that, if he does so), but at least having admitted it it means it's now out in the open, and at least he's hopefully not ripping off anyone else. So in other words I agree with you. "It's better than nothing" kind of thing.

juansolo said:

wolf5150 said:

I've no idea what the ' Freakish Blues ' reference is but it took balls to come clean.

No it took being discovered to come clean. It's fraud plain and simple, he's a con man and he's been caught. Similar thing happened to Freakish Blues who were buying cheap Chinese pedals, gooping them, tarting them up and flogging them as the next big thing.

What he's doing is damage limitation. Same again as the TMG saga who appears to be trans-continental shister.

Guts? He's lucky he's not facing legal action, he bloody should be. Anyone who thinks this move was in any way brave or by someone with any sort of moral values is deluded.

I think I posted something on TGP along the lines of "Wow I didn't see that coming, that took some guts" on TGP... which it kind of did. Plenty of people even when caught dead to rights will still try to weasel out of it.

I also didn't see the point in kicking someone when he's down.

That being said, I'd be the first to agree that the fact the thing had sort of hit critical mass (when your endorsers start leaving and saying the claims of rebadging are true, it's hard to stick to the same story) probably had a fairly big influence on his decision to come clean. It's nice he admitted it but it had pretty much got to the point where he had nowhere else to go.

Also I figured there was no point in sticking the boot in and getting banned from TGP either )

RaymondLin said:

Even instructed lawyers to try and shut people up at the beginning, people seem to forget that.

Yeah that was particularly off, IMO.

RMJ

The Bonamassa account is hilarious. It seems Mason literally had no idea what he was doing, but managed to bluff a lot of people.

I am utterly fascinated with all of this for some reason!

richardhomer

It seems to me if the guy had been honest about working in the 'modding' business, rather than the 'manufacturing' business, he'd have been okay.

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

randomhandclaps

richardhomer said:

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

It's not really if things are genuinely handmade by skilled workmen.  However if you have the bulk of the work done for you by another company in the far east and your duties involve a change of stickers and placing a hefty price tag on it then it certainly seems more appealing to chancers.

Heartfeltdawn

richardhomer said:

It seems to me if the guy had been honest about working in the 'modding' business, rather than the 'manufacturing' business, he'd have been okay.

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

Talk to a few of the good US builders and you will realise it isn't. 

juansolo

randomhandclaps said:

richardhomer said:

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

It's not really if things are genuinely handmade by skilled workmen.  However if you have the bulk of the work done for you by another company in the far east and your duties involve a change of stickers and placing a hefty price tag on it then it certainly seems more appealing to chancers.

This is spot on. The chancers who are essentially conning people by re-badging someone elses product and marking it up hugely, make money. People actually making stuff, are probably making very little.

mike_l

Heartfeltdawn said:

richardhomer said:

It seems to me if the guy had been honest about working in the 'modding' business, rather than the 'manufacturing' business, he'd have been okay.

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

Talk to a few of the good US builders and you will realise it isn't. 

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.