Axis Wah Announcement

digitalscream

mike_l said:

Heartfeltdawn said:

richardhomer said:

It seems to me if the guy had been honest about working in the 'modding' business, rather than the 'manufacturing' business, he'd have been okay.

The 'boutique' pedal business must be the most profitable in the music industry. Simple circuits, cheap to build, high mark-up, low shipping costs, what's not to like?

Talk to a few of the good US builders and you will realise it isn't. 

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

frankus

Which considering the dude had a CNC mill is actually saying something

digitalscream

frankus said:

Which considering the dude had a CNC mill is actually saying something

I don't think it was that year

mike_l

digitalscream said:

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

That's about the long and short of it. I think to make money (not just break even) you need to either mass-produce or charge a lot (with the resultant drop in sales levels).

guitarfishbay

mike_l said:

digitalscream said:

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

That's about the long and short of it. I think to make money (not just break even) you need to either mass-produce or charge a lot (with the resultant drop in sales levels).

Yep.

If you're selling pedals at the cheap end (say £100 or less) you'd have to sell enough per day that after your costs you make a liveable wage.  That is a lot of pedals to be consistently selling, and you'd be building and selling all the time.  I don't really see it being a sustainable business plan as I don't think that many people buy obscure pedals.

The boutique prices model would make more sense if you could get a big enough (TGP sized) customer base willing to buy multiple products etc.

I'd love to know how many pedals per year the boutique builders actually sell.

ThePrettyDamned

mike_l said:

digitalscream said:

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

That's about the long and short of it. I think to make money (not just break even) you need to either mass-produce or charge a lot (with the resultant drop in sales levels).

I suspect that when the price is high enough, it sorta reverses and sales increase - people want to be in the exclusive gold dust club and buy it (this happens all the time on tgp - axis wah isn't the first, won't be the last). Reviews will be mostly positive because no one wants to admit they spent 400 dollars on a Ben wah (or overdrive or distortion or insert any circuit ever here) without it being amazing and justifying the cost. Seriously, if you want to have a laugh, read axis wah reviews - it'll make you gas for a Ben wah (unless you're me and want switchless design!).

guitarfishbay

ThePrettyDamned said:

mike_l said:

digitalscream said:

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

That's about the long and short of it. I think to make money (not just break even) you need to either mass-produce or charge a lot (with the resultant drop in sales levels).

I suspect that when the price is high enough, it sorta reverses and sales increase - people want to be in the exclusive gold dust club and buy it (this happens all the time on tgp - axis wah isn't the first, won't be the last). Reviews will be mostly positive because no one wants to admit they spent 400 dollars on a Ben wah (or overdrive or distortion or insert any circuit ever here) without it being amazing and justifying the cost. Seriously, if you want to have a laugh, read axis wah reviews - it'll make you gas for a Ben wah (unless you're me and want switchless design!).

Positive reviews on expensive gear is an issue I have with 'independent' reviews.

People who independently buy the gear have invested their own money - most aren't willing to trash their investment and make resale difficult if it actually sucked (thankfully most expensive gear doesn't).  I'd say that there are only a few people on webforums who I'd definitely trust to give a warts and all opinion on a piece of gear.  I still read other people's reviews, just I feel I would give more weight to a review from someone I know and whose opinion respect.  

Heartfeltdawn

mike_l said:

Not just US builders.

Juansolo has said it's no more than a self-paying hobby.

I mentioned the good US builders because they are the heavyweight names with the biggest domestic pedal market. Yer Analogman/Catalinbread/and talk to them about costs and keeping a business going that isn't a one-man hobby builder with a decently sized shed. 

Dave_Mc

digitalscream said:

I seem to recall Sporky saying he'd had a good year when his accountant told him he hadn't managed to lose money on his hobby...

I thought he said it was when he hadn't lost just as much as the previous year )

guitarfishbay said:

Positive reviews on expensive gear is an issue I have with 'independent' reviews.

People who independently buy the gear have invested their own money - most aren't willing to trash their investment and make resale difficult if it actually sucked (thankfully most expensive gear doesn't).  I'd say that there are only a few people on webforums who I'd definitely trust to give a warts and all opinion on a piece of gear.  I still read other people's reviews, just I feel I would give more weight to a review from someone I know and whose opinion respect.  

Yeah normally when I write a review I use as many weasel words and qualifications as possible so I don't look silly if it turns out later to be crap.

"Sounds pretty good to me, but I'm only playing at low levels and I'm an idiot and don't even trust my own ears"

Etc.

Gassage

I'm a very good friend of Dan @ Gigrig.

His growing pains were huge and he'd speak exactly of this. Once you've got a great pedal solution then building it to a profitable cost is a huge issue- market is very competitive, it's also diluted by our propensity to buy used, and the product has to work both technically (easy) and not technically (not so easy). Then once you've sorted both, Quality Control (if outsourcing) is critical.

Dan's higher end stuff is fast becoming the halo brand of switchers and by his R and D investment he's managed to get into the real high end, but I've known times when he was so down about it that he almost did something else.

dindude

guitarfishbay said

I'd love to know how many pedals per year the boutique builders actually sell.

Depends what you mean by boutique, those that have a reputation or have strayed into semi mass-market (Wampler, Xotic etc) are punching some good numbers I should imagine.

Supposedly there are 8000 original Klons out in the world, I worked that out to be around 500 per year average during its lifetime.

The Fulldrive II has sold 150,000 over 20 years, so that's an average of 7,500 per year just for that pedal

I remember in a documentary that Anologman said he was selling hundreds and hundreds of pedals each month. 

But by contrast, someone who makes a (clone) pedal on their kitchen table, makes a web site for 10 quid and expects to sell more than two of them is deluded. You've got to get out there with hype or marketing, a dealer base, and probably a fair deal of luck too granted.

When I look at The Tone Report on-line magazine, through their adverts and reviews, it staggers me how many small boutique pedal makers are still coming to market, I used to take a very active interest but there are just too many to keep up with. These must be hopeful hobby builders a best.