The F1 thread

sinbaadi

Heartfeltdawn said:

chillidoggy said:

Malfunctionado penalty points in 2014 - 4. Penalty points in 2015 - 8. A 100% increase.

Doesn't look much like an improving driver to me in that respect. Let's face it - without the money he'd be out of F1 tomorrow.

...which is why I said he showed an improvement over the second half of the season. Have a look yourself. Only one penalty in races 11 to 20. Of the penalties this season, two were 'causing an incident'. 

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2015-f1-season/statistics/penalties-index/

Let's face it - without his money, Lotus would have been fucked this season. As said earlier, his sponsorship up to the end of next season was paid to Lotus this year. Everyone knows how strapped for beans they've been this year.

F1 has always had pay drivers and will always need them as long as the financial distribution is so skewed against the small teams.  

Even if by some lunacy the small teams were given an equal share of the profit as, say, Ferrari, there would still be pay-drivers in F1.  Drivers are the one thing that a new team really does not have to invest in, and they wouldn't even if they had the money.  Given the gulf of performance gaps between most of the teams on the constructors' table, getting a driver who can drive "well enough" to put the car where it should be is really not that hard.  We're not talking about a truly elite driver making that final 0.1% difference required to take a team to the top.  Even a team like Lotus would always have been better served taking the money than giving a seat to a truly prodigious talent that brought no backing with him, the car would have had largely similar results each year.

F1 is a farce and a charade, and I don't mean that too harshly, it's with some fondness I say that, in fact.  New and low-order teams: Farce.  Driver's Title: Charade.  Regulations: Farce & a Charade.  Technical Development/Innovation: Charade.  Finances: Farce.  Spending/Testing Restrictions: Farce.  TV Coverage/Licensing: Farce.  Its status as the "Top Tier":  Charade.

chillidoggy

Heartfeltdawn said:

 

F1 has always had pay drivers and will always need them as long as the financial distribution is so skewed against the small teams.  

Sadly, that is indeed the case.

Mind you, if you look back through the years, motor racing has always been a rich man's game. Right at the start of it, it was only the rich and landed gentry who could afford to mess about with cars. The cast list would be Count Von Jackboot, Lord Snooty, or the right honourable Earl of Poo-Pah, etc. It has to be one of the most divisive sports ever.

Heartfeltdawn

sinbaadi said:

Even if by some lunacy the small teams were given an equal share of the profit as, say, Ferrari, there would still be pay-drivers in F1.  Drivers are the one thing that a new team really does not have to invest in, and they wouldn't even if they had the money.  Given the gulf of performance gaps between most of the teams on the constructors' table, getting a driver who can drive "well enough" to put the car where it should be is really not that hard.  We're not talking about a truly elite driver making that final 0.1% difference required to take a team to the top.  Even a team like Lotus would always have been better served taking the money than giving a seat to a truly prodigious talent that brought no backing with him, the car would have had largely similar results each year.

F1 is a farce and a charade, and I don't mean that too harshly, it's with some fondness I say that, in fact.  New and low-order teams: Farce.  Driver's Title: Charade.  Regulations: Farce & a Charade.  Technical Development/Innovation: Charade.  Finances: Farce.  Spending/Testing Restrictions: Farce.  TV Coverage/Licensing: Farce.  Its status as the "Top Tier":  Charade.

I don't disagree at all with your words. I don't think it's the top tier of racing because actual racing is a side show. The WEC pisses all over it in every department. Racing throughout the field? Check. Equal respect given for the LMP1 teams with cash right down to the privateers? Check. Awesome looking cars that sound great, be they the jet fighter swoosh of the Audi LMP1 cars down to the Aston Martins in GTE? Check.

chillidoggy said:

Mind you, if you look back through the years, motor racing has always been a rich man's game. Right at the start of it, it was only the rich and landed gentry who could afford to mess about with cars. The cast list would be Count Von Jackboot, Lord Snooty, or the right honourable Earl of Poo-Pah, etc. It has to be one of the most divisive sports ever.

Absolutely.

Fretwired

Article in the Times says Hamilton's at risk of being booted out of Mercedes. Apparently Mercedes don't like his partying or the fact he brings his music producer with him to every race (this has sparked some other rumours) - they sit up all night making tunes ... :-)

Hamilton was certainly off the boil after he won the championsip.

chillidoggy

Fretwired said:

Article in the Times says Hamilton's at risk of being booted out of Mercedes. Apparently Mercedes don't like his partying or the fact he brings his music producer with him to every race (this has sparked some other rumours) - they sit up all night making tunes ... :-)

Hamilton was certainly off the boil after he won the championsip.

Typical bloody Germans. No sense of humour.

Wouldn't be at all surprised if it happens, though. I sense things haven't been a bed of roses in the Merc camp for some time.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Article in the Times says Hamilton's at risk of being booted out of Mercedes. Apparently Mercedes don't like his partying or the fact he brings his music producer with him to every race (this has sparked some other rumours) - they sit up all night making tunes ... :-)

Hamilton was certainly off the boil after he won the championsip.

Which is how Australia used to be in the Ashes. Whip us in the first three games, secure the urn, give us a consolation victory, series ends at 3-1. It's how the remaining singles matches in the Ryder Cup end up after victory is gained. The final three races were dead rubber situations (arf). 

This article is interesting as it talks about Hamilton as a man who possesses self-confidence and insecurity. There are parallels between Hamilton and Kevin Pietersen in that regard. Pietersen was an outspoken outsider in a foreign team who really utilised social media to gain a wider audience, something Hamilton seems pretty good at as well. The talk of Rosberg's upbringing versus his own suggests someone who does feel a bit awkward there right now. 

It wouldn't be a surprise if Mercedes did get rid of him. If so, then I reckon Ferrari would break both arms trying to sign him. A freshly floated company on the stock markets with a long reputation coupled with the biggest name in Formula 1? It makes perfect commercial sense. Ferrari could bring him in and simply tell both drivers to go and race one another. The winners of the race wouldn't matter, the Mercs could race off and win because everyone would be wanting to see Vettel versus Hamilton. Sod the constructors title, sod the drivers title, Ferrari aren't particularly reliant on the revenue that comes from outright success. Let's see you two race each other's balls off. It would be commercial gold for Ferrari. 

HAL9000

chillidoggy said:

Malfunctionado penalty points in 2014 - 4. 

Penalty points in 2015 - 8. 

I wonder what his goal is for 2016...

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Article in the Times says Hamilton's at risk of being booted out of Mercedes. Apparently Mercedes don't like his partying or the fact he brings his music producer with him to every race (this has sparked some other rumours) - they sit up all night making tunes ... :-)

Hamilton was certainly off the boil after he won the championsip.

Which is how Australia used to be in the Ashes. Whip us in the first three games, secure the urn, give us a consolation victory, series ends at 3-1. It's how the remaining singles matches in the Ryder Cup end up after victory is gained. The final three races were dead rubber situations (arf). 

This article is interesting as it talks about Hamilton as a man who possesses self-confidence and insecurity. There are parallels between Hamilton and Kevin Pietersen in that regard. Pietersen was an outspoken outsider in a foreign team who really utilised social media to gain a wider audience, something Hamilton seems pretty good at as well. The talk of Rosberg's upbringing versus his own suggests someone who does feel a bit awkward there right now. 

It wouldn't be a surprise if Mercedes did get rid of him. If so, then I reckon Ferrari would break both arms trying to sign him. A freshly floated company on the stock markets with a long reputation coupled with the biggest name in Formula 1? It makes perfect commercial sense. Ferrari could bring him in and simply tell both drivers to go and race one another. The winners of the race wouldn't matter, the Mercs could race off and win because everyone would be wanting to see Vettel versus Hamilton. Sod the constructors title, sod the drivers title, Ferrari aren't particularly reliant on the revenue that comes from outright success. Let's see you two race each other's balls off. It would be commercial gold for Ferrari. 

That's a snippet from the Times article - and the unnamed team boss is Big Ron ...

You could be right - Hamilton has always said he wouldn't mind a drive at Ferrari. I guess it would depend on whether Vettel has a veto. The other berth could be Red Bull partnering Mad Max ... that would be another tasty on track punch up as Max doesn't follow orders and seems to resemble Hamilton in an earlier life. Hamilton is also a better fit with the Red Bull brand than perhaps Mercedes.

Heartfeltdawn

HAL9000 said:

I wonder what his goal is for 2016...

The first man to gain a world championship point having driven backwards for the entire race. 

Fretwired said:

That's a snippet from the Times article - and the unnamed team boss is Big Ron ...

You could be right - Hamilton has always said he wouldn't mind a drive at Ferrari. I guess it would depend on whether Vettel has a veto. The other berth could be Red Bull partnering Mad Max ... that would be another tasty on track punch up as Max doesn't follow orders and seems to resemble Hamilton in an earlier life. Hamilton is also a better fit with the Red Bull brand than perhaps Mercedes.

Big Ron aka the winner of the Outstanding Leadership Award from the Marketing Society. Bet there were some giggles in Woking at that one. 

Max isn't ready for Red Bull yet. Another year, see what happens with him. I can't see Hamilton at Red Bull. It's never been a fit that seems right. Ferrari have the name, the heritage, they're close to the front, they can handle difficult folk (they kept Fernando happy for ages, and don't mind Kimi possessing more wins in F1 than he uses words in interviews)... Hamilton has the same number of championships as Senna now. What else is there to do? A Ferrari drive is one of those things. 

chillidoggy

If Hamster leaves or gets booted, I'm plumping for Ferrari, or Red Bull.

Yeah, yeah, I'm spreading my bets, but only because I can see him fitting in better at Red Bull from the brand point of view.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

If Hamster leaves or gets booted, I'm plumping for Ferrari, or Red Bull.

Yeah, yeah, I'm spreading my bets, but only because I can see him fitting in better at Red Bull from the brand point of view.

I agree with you. The Red Bull brand suits Hamilton's style even if there's no prestige driving the car .. the problem with Ferrari maybe Vettel and the fact the team tends to run with a number one driver and have team orders. Kimi played by the rules this year which is why is there for 2016. Italians are volatile at the best of times and the new boss seems to burn on a short fuse .. Hamilton maybe too hot for them to handle.

Hamilton's becoming the motor racing equivalent of David Beckham which won't do his bank balance any harm.

chillidoggy

Frertboard F1 online free betting just for fun:

Hamster going to Red Bull:-

1. Chillidoggy

2.

Hamster going to Ferrari:-

1. Heartfeltdawn

2. Fretwired

Hamster staying put at Merc

1. Bobblehat

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Frertboard F1 online free betting just for fun:

Hamster going to Red Bull:-

1. Chillidoggy

2. Fretwired

Hamster going to Ferrari:-

1. Heartfeltdawn

Hamster staying put at Merc

1.

In fairness I think @chillidoggy and I both stated Ferrari or Red Bull.

bobblehat

chillidoggy said:

Frertboard F1 online free betting just for fun:

Hamster going to Red Bull:-

1. Chillidoggy

2. Fretwired

Hamster going to Ferrari:-

1. Heartfeltdawn

Hamster staying put at Merc

1.

Staying at Merc - 

He'll want to a few more titles yet and I cant seen anyone catching Mercedes next year.If he goes to Ferrari he will at least want to have the same amount of titles as Vettel.

Fretwired

Toto Wolff's up to something ... he reiterated his threat again yesterday .. is Lewis about to jump ship?

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/wolff-repeats-warning-for-hamilton-and-rosberg/

chillidoggy

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

Frertboard F1 online free betting just for fun:

Hamster going to Red Bull:-

1. Chillidoggy

2. Fretwired

Hamster going to Ferrari:-

1. Heartfeltdawn

Hamster staying put at Merc

1.

In fairness I think @chillidoggy and I both stated Ferrari or Red Bull.

Come on Fret, you need to shit, or get off the pot, man!

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

I agree with you. The Red Bull brand suits Hamilton's style even if there's no prestige driving the car .. the problem with Ferrari maybe Vettel and the fact the team tends to run with a number one driver and have team orders. Kimi played by the rules this year which is why is there for 2016. Italians are volatile at the best of times and the new boss seems to burn on a short fuse .. Hamilton maybe too hot for them to handle.

Hamilton's becoming the motor racing equivalent of David Beckham which won't do his bank balance any harm.

It's questionable whether there is real prestige with the brand. Maybe that's just my prejudice as I view Red Bull the drink as Blue Nun for the Instagram generation If there is, it's not the sort of prestige one has with the like of Tag or Rolex or Ferrari. 

I agree that Ferrari have tended to run with a Number 1 and team orders. In those days Ferrari needed to win titles and races because F1 was their method of advertising. The float has changed things, not least because Ferrari now have to publish their finances in greater detail. If that is how much cash you can bring in with a monosyllabic number 2 driver and just three race victories (assuming that the cash for winning races was paid out quickly in the nine month period up to September 30 and not at the end of the season), then imagine what your commercial and sponsorship revenue would be like with the two hottest drivers in F1 going against one another. 

In the modern climate, having Hamilton and Vettel facing off in the same team would be the event. It wouldn't matter if they finished 3rd and 4th behind two silver Mercs. The media would be all over the Ferrari team wherever they finished and however they did. Signing Hamilton would be an instant jump to the share prices and company value and it would give them a real link into the American market. 

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/ferrari-ipo-is-just-days-away/

Ferrari could handle Hamilton. They kept Alonso going for a number of years and he's hardly placid. 

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

Frertboard F1 online free betting just for fun:

Hamster going to Red Bull:-

1. Chillidoggy

2. Fretwired

Hamster going to Ferrari:-

1. Heartfeltdawn

Hamster staying put at Merc

1.

In fairness I think @chillidoggy and I both stated Ferrari or Red Bull.

Come on Fret, you need to shit, or get off the pot, man!

Read above .. I said Hamilton's first choice would be Ferrari .. depends on Vettel. I then said Hamilton would fit Red Bull's brand so that could be a second choice. Hamilton won't like what Wolff is saying as it's basically you can race Rosberg on my terms and you keep your mouth shut.

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

I agree with you. The Red Bull brand suits Hamilton's style even if there's no prestige driving the car .. the problem with Ferrari maybe Vettel and the fact the team tends to run with a number one driver and have team orders. Kimi played by the rules this year which is why is there for 2016. Italians are volatile at the best of times and the new boss seems to burn on a short fuse .. Hamilton maybe too hot for them to handle.

Hamilton's becoming the motor racing equivalent of David Beckham which won't do his bank balance any harm.

It's questionable whether there is real prestige with the brand. Maybe that's just my prejudice as I view Red Bull the drink as Blue Nun for the Instagram generation If there is, it's not the sort of prestige one has with the like of Tag or Rolex or Ferrari. 

I agree that Ferrari have tended to run with a Number 1 and team orders. In those days Ferrari needed to win titles and races because F1 was their method of advertising. The float has changed things, not least because Ferrari now have to publish their finances in greater detail. If that is how much cash you can bring in with a monosyllabic number 2 driver and just three race victories (assuming that the cash for winning races was paid out quickly in the nine month period up to September 30 and not at the end of the season), then imagine what your commercial and sponsorship revenue would be like with the two hottest drivers in F1 going against one another. 

In the modern climate, having Hamilton and Vettel facing off in the same team would be the event. It wouldn't matter if they finished 3rd and 4th behind two silver Mercs. The media would be all over the Ferrari team wherever they finished and however they did. Signing Hamilton would be an instant jump to the share prices and company value and it would give them a real link into the American market. 

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/ferrari-ipo-is-just-days-away/

Ferrari could handle Hamilton. They kept Alonso going for a number of years and he's hardly placid. 

There's no prestige in driving for Red Bull but it wouldn't do Hamilton's image any harm - the Blue Nun analogy is spot on.

You are right - Hamilton versus Vettel could be a tasty event that pulls in the viewers (as someone else said above) if if Mercedes are leading from the front 99.9% of TV directors will keep their cameras training on the rampaging stallions of Ferrari.

Let's see if Hamilton puts out any feelers .. his Tweet 'on the move' got F1 fans speculating ..

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

There's no prestige in driving for Red Bull but it wouldn't do Hamilton's image any harm - the Blue Nun analogy is spot on.

You are right - Hamilton versus Vettel could be a tasty event that pulls in the viewers (as someone else said above) if if Mercedes are leading from the front 99.9% of TV directors will keep their cameras training on the rampaging stallions of Ferrari.

Let's see if Hamilton puts out any feelers .. his Tweet 'on the move' got F1 fans speculating ..

We've already seen in the second half of the season that the FOM director has no problem not featuring the leading cars if they're whazzing all over everyone else. They'd rather showing Max going past Saubers. In that event, they'd have absolutely no problem with Vettel and Hamilton going for it in a pair of red Tifosi pleasers. 

Hamilton really doesn't need Red Bull to improve his image or marketability. Hanging around with reality TV folk, all the social stuff, he's in the position where he can go to the next level. He won't beat Schumacher's number of world titles and he isn't as single-minded as Schumi. I could see him giving it a go at Ferrari, trying to win a title with a third different car (which would be a real achievement) and then doing what Mansell did and giving America a try. People in America will have already seen how much a world-renowned person can bring to a league with Beckham and the MLS: Hamilton could well bring that to Indycar. Mansell won in America at the age of 40 so there is plenty of time for the Hamster yet. 

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24181/10086796/jenson-button-says-lewis-hamilton-doesnt-interact-other-f1-drivers

That picture on the parade truck speaks volumes. Have you ever seen a guy finish a season as champion and seem so disenchanted with his team and the sport as a whole? There have been drivers who threw hissy fits in the past and jacked it in but this isn't it. There's something more going on there.