The F1 thread

Fretwired

Mercedes cocked up strategy again (Woolf) by not letting Bottas take advantage of the undercut. Max needs to shut up and drive better - not sure where Lewis was supposed to go and good to see Alonso overtaking cars. I wonder how the boys at McLaren felt with a Honda powered car coming fourth?

Entertaining, but would have been better had the Bulls been in the mix.

Cols

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

Deadman

Well, I bloomin well enjoyed that. Entertaining pretty much throughout. Long may it continue.

GuyR

I think the result would have been different had it been Hamilton chasing down Vettel in the final few laps. Stunning drive from Vettel, though and a fascinating race.

stickyfiddle

Cols said:

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

I can’t help feeling the rest of them have got wise to Max’s “dive up the inside with elbows out” routine. It was reslly impressive when he was a rookie, but if you don’t just let him through he tends not to make it stick. Combine that with a car that just isn’t quite looking like a championship winner and he’s trying too hard.

GuyR

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

I can’t help feeling the rest of them have got wise to Max’s “dive up the inside with elbows out” routine. It was reslly impressive when he was a rookie, but if you don’t just let him through he tends not to make it stick. Combine that with a car that just isn’t quite looking like a championship winner and he’s trying too hard.

Verstappen didn't seem keen to accept any responsibility for the incident, which looked much more his fault than Hamilton's. He's for it from his mum when he gets home. 

PC_Dave

GuyR said:

I think the result would have been different had it been Hamilton chasing down Vettel in the final few laps.

Yeah, but it wasn’t though, was it.....? 

Cols

GuyR said:

Verstappen didn't seem keen to accept any responsibility for the incident, which looked much more his fault than Hamilton's. He's for it from his mum when he gets home. 

No pocket money for him this week.

GuyR

PC_Dave said:

GuyR said:

I think the result would have been different had it been Hamilton chasing down Vettel in the final few laps.

Yeah, but it wasn’t though, was it.....? 

Fair point and quite right. Just making the point that, in my opinion, Bottas doesn't quite have the same ability as Hamilton.

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

I can’t help feeling the rest of them have got wise to Max’s “dive up the inside with elbows out” routine. It was reslly impressive when he was a rookie, but if you don’t just let him through he tends not to make it stick. Combine that with a car that just isn’t quite looking like a championship winner and he’s trying too hard.

Same thing with his ‘robust defensive driving’ (means waiting to see which way the car behind is going to go and then chopping across).  I couldn’t help but think at the time that it was going to take a big accident or two for him to learn what was and wasn’t acceptable.

Fretwired

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

I can’t help feeling the rest of them have got wise to Max’s “dive up the inside with elbows out” routine. It was reslly impressive when he was a rookie, but if you don’t just let him through he tends not to make it stick. Combine that with a car that just isn’t quite looking like a championship winner and he’s trying too hard.

Same thing with his ‘robust defensive driving’ (means waiting to see which way the car behind is going to go and then chopping across).  I couldn’t help but think at the time that it was going to take a big accident or two for him to learn what was and wasn’t acceptable.

Agree .. he should learn from the likes of Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso .. his own team mate manages to pull off the odd stunning overtake without colliding with anyone. He's starting to look foolish ... at the moment he's too hotheaded to win a championship.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

stickyfiddle said:

Cols said:

Utter disaster for Red Bull.  Looked like a systems failure for Ricciardo - the steering went dead as well as the engine - and Verstappen’s woes were all of his own making.  What was Hamilton meant to do, teleport out of the way?

I can’t help feeling the rest of them have got wise to Max’s “dive up the inside with elbows out” routine. It was reslly impressive when he was a rookie, but if you don’t just let him through he tends not to make it stick. Combine that with a car that just isn’t quite looking like a championship winner and he’s trying too hard.

Same thing with his ‘robust defensive driving’ (means waiting to see which way the car behind is going to go and then chopping across).  I couldn’t help but think at the time that it was going to take a big accident or two for him to learn what was and wasn’t acceptable.

Agree .. he should learn from the likes of Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso .. his own team mate manages to pull off the odd stunning overtake without colliding with anyone. He's starting to look foolish ... at the moment he's too hotheaded to win a championship.

And the thing is, if he chills out he'll probably go quicker too, which would mean beating Ricciardo easily (sadly, for me!). But as it stands he's always focussed on the next overtake without looking at the big picture, which should be points and titles. He was the same with Sainz at TR.

This seems to be a phase that a lot of naturally talented drivers have to go through - Hamilton had it in his last couple of McLaren seasons, Vettel has at times, Grosjean had it in spades his first couple of seasons, and Perez had it at McLaren with Button, then not so much with Hulkenberg, then A LOT when Ocon matched him in his first 3 races.

Colin McRae had it to the point that Dave Richards told him if he crashed another Impreza he'd be fired. He calmed down and cruised to the title that year. 

chillidoggy

Last part of the race was edge of seat stuff, and I'm pleased to see Vettel now has a decent lead. That will make things more interesting later in the season, Hamster/Merc  will have to up their game to catch those Ferraris.

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Last part of the race was edge of seat stuff, and I'm pleased to see Vettel now has a decent lead. That will make things more interesting later in the season, Hamster/Merc  will have to up their game to catch those Ferraris.

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

I think Vettel is the one to catch. Not sure why everyone thinks Mercedes were going to walk away with it. Vettel would have won last year had Ferrari not imploded. That won't happen this year. I'm tipping him to win (which will be the kiss of death .. :-))

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

But both Bulls retired. They would have been in front of him so McLaren still has a lot of work to do.

lewism

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

But both Bulls retired. They would have been in front of him so McLaren still has a lot of work to do.

While that’s true, they’ve still finished better overall than Red Bull in the first two races - Verstappen shot himself in the foot in both races and Ricciardos car died yesterday. McLaren by contrast had good races in the same circumstances. It may not be how championships are won, but being in a position to take advantage of the failures of others is still a much better position than they have been in. Lots of people elsewhere seem to be pointing out the Torro Rosso performance as a sign that McLaren blundered by parting ways with Honda but they’re already on their second engine and will surely be hit by grid penalties within a couple of races that McLaren should able to avoid (for a while, I’ve got a nagging doubt that this season will be determined by engine reliability and grid penalties)

Fretwired

lewism said:

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

But both Bulls retired. They would have been in front of him so McLaren still has a lot of work to do.

While that’s true, they’ve still finished better overall than Red Bull in the first two races - Verstappen shot himself in the foot in both races and Ricciardos car died yesterday. McLaren by contrast had good races in the same circumstances. It may not be how championships are won, but being in a position to take advantage of the failures of others is still a much better position than they have been in. Lots of people elsewhere seem to be pointing out the Torro Rosso performance as a sign that McLaren blundered by parting ways with Honda but they’re already on their second engine and will surely be hit by grid penalties within a couple of races that McLaren should able to avoid (for a while, I’ve got a nagging doubt that this season will be determined by engine reliability and grid penalties)

Some valid points but McLaren were woeful during qualifying. Alonso is pleased that the cars seem reliable during the race but he's critical of the performance. They need to be racing with Red Bull but I'm sure the Bulls would have been well down the road based on the quali performance. Ricciardo would probably have beaten Hamilton had his car been reliable.

Garthy

lewism said:

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

I also think it's interesting to see Alonso 4th in the driver's championship!

But both Bulls retired. They would have been in front of him so McLaren still has a lot of work to do.

While that’s true, they’ve still finished better overall than Red Bull in the first two races - Verstappen shot himself in the foot in both races and Ricciardos car died yesterday. McLaren by contrast had good races in the same circumstances. It may not be how championships are won, but being in a position to take advantage of the failures of others is still a much better position than they have been in. Lots of people elsewhere seem to be pointing out the Torro Rosso performance as a sign that McLaren blundered by parting ways with Honda but they’re already on their second engine and will surely be hit by grid penalties within a couple of races that McLaren should able to avoid (for a while, I’ve got a nagging doubt that this season will be determined by engine reliability and grid penalties)

Honda have said they are ignoring the 3 engine rule, if they have an update then it'll go in the car which is what happened this weekend. Renault are also going to ignore the 3 engine rule and plan on using at least 4 units.

lewism

Hadn’t read about Honda ignoring the three engine rule but having done a bit of digging it makes it look like they may be sacrificing Torro Rosso’s season this year to make sure they have a reasonable engine for Red Bull next year - unless they really think there’ll be a magic upgrade soon that means they’ll blitz the field from the back row after the inevitable 35 place grid penalties.

Fretwired

lewism said:

Hadn’t read about Honda ignoring the three engine rule but having done a bit of digging it makes it look like they may be sacrificing Torro Rosso’s season this year to make sure they have a reasonable engine for Red Bull next year - unless they really think there’ll be a magic upgrade soon that means they’ll blitz the field from the back row after the inevitable 35 place grid penalties.

I guarantee with a tight championship nobody will make it to the end on three engines with the exception of Williams .. :-)