The F1 thread

sinbaadi

Reliability issues do not make for better racing!  
I think that's pretty obvious really.  Shame for Charles, and the spectators.

On the porpoising thing, RBR have built a better car and should be able to reap the benefits.  There is literally no point in having the teams design their own cars if someone steps in with a rule change because some teams are not able to figure out an issue as well others.


This is just another instance of F1 not being what people really want.

TimmyO

They've already proved that they are not averse to random rule changes by allowing floor stays to be added, when some teams designed from the start to not need them. 

I think that was a fudge too far already.

Despite being pro-Lewis I can understand why many would take a dim view of a rule change that proportionally benefitted Mercedes more than others.

I wonder if the budget cap is in part what prevents a team just going with a whole new concept mid season ?

But driver health should be a prime factor.

I don't like it, but I lean toward the solution being in Mercedes' own hands: try setups until just before Parc firm, then set the car up to drive safely, however slow that is

chillidoggy

When asked what he would about it if the RB cars experienced the same porpoising, Christian Horner said, “Tell them (the drivers) to bitch as much as they could over the radio and make as big an issue out of it as they possibly could. It’s part of the game.”

Emiel

The usually well-informed German magazine Auto Motor & Sport states only Mercedes is truly affected by the bouncing. 
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-mercedes-bouncing-ungesund-fuer-fahrer/

"The competition takes the Mercedes statements with a dose of sarcasm. "They should just drive higher," says the opponents. According to team manager Toto Wolff, this is not easily representable. "At high speeds, our car hits bump stops. Even if we jacked it up, the bouncing would remain somewhere."

A source in the paddock states: "If everyone had the same problem, it would be a different story. Then F1 would have to do something. Especially if it would pose a safety threat. It mainly affects Mercedes here. Why should you change anything then?"

Cols

Except it doesn't just affect Mercedes.  They're just the highest profile casualty, and if the porpoising was resolved then their performance issues would reportedly be resolved.

Magnussen has suffered from nerve pain in his arm and jaw as a result of porpoising. 

Ricciardo said he felt genuinely rattled after Baku, and the McLaren is one of the smoothest cars on the grid. 

Sainz has spoken out repeatedly on the topic. 

And Gasly has eloquently noted that solutions are required "to save us from ending up with a cane at 30 years old" and highlighted that he needs physiotherapy after every session - not just every weekend - to deal with the damage to his intervertebral discs.

sinbaadi

They probably should have seen it coming from a regulations point of view and they're in a bit of a corner!  

Is there any data on whether the cars are actually able to follow closer?

goldtop

Bottas probably has less reason than most to help Mercedes' but he's concerned: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/61809406

Cols

sinbaadi said:

They probably should have seen it coming from a regulations point of view and they're in a bit of a corner!  

Apparently it was foreseen last year that this would be an issue.  A change was proposed to the regs to eliminate (or at least alleviate) the porpoising, but some teams objected and it didn’t go through.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/teams-blocking-ideas-that-can-improve-f1-drivers-ride-comfort/

Wouldn’t it be funny if Merc was one of those teams?

chillidoggy

The drivers have the answer in their hands - refuse to drive.

goldtop

The problem is that, at the time their bodies are suffering most, adrenalin is hiding the real level of pain. Same as with many other sporting injuries - e.g. that goalkeeper who played on with a broken neck, Carl Fogarty in a Superbike race an hour or so after high-siding and breaking some ankle bone. 

Cols

Well... the FIA has intervened.  But not in the way Mercedes would have liked.

https://www.fia.com/news/fia-takes-steps-reduce-porpoising-interests-safety

Effectively they’re kicking it back on the teams to adjust their cars so they no longer porpoise, and will examine plank wear and vertical acceleration in order to enforce this.  Technical measures to actually reduce the phenomenon will only come in the medium term.

Toto Wolff has already stated that just raising the ride height won’t stop the problem for them, so Mercedes could be facing potential exclusion.

thumpingrug

I read this that the FIA are worried about a future legal claim against them and they feel this will provide the get out of jail free card

goldtop

^ Which is fair enough. 

chillidoggy

It reads like the FIA saying, “ You lot sort it out yourselves, or else.”

Which is laying down a marker that if they don’t comply, they’ll be in breach of rules. Seems fair enough to me. If they cannot cure their problem unless they raise the ride height, then so be it, that’s what they need to do.

TimmyO

oh dear, Marc are fecked unless this coincides with some other step forward for them 

Steiner be like "welcome to my world boys, enjoy the view from back here..."

chillidoggy

TimmyO said:

oh dear, Marc are fecked unless this coincides with some other step forward for them 

Steiner be like "welcome to my fucking world boys, enjoy the shitbox view from back here..."

FTFY.

chillidoggy

https://www.planetf1.com/news/10mm-ride-height-increase-for-teams-cant-curb-porpoising/

Cols

The fond hope for this season was that the reg changes would close things up.  We’re now 8 races in and only three drivers from 2 teams have won a race or been on pole.

Now we have a Technical Directive which will ultimately give further advantage to the Championship leader; Red Bill don’t seem to have an issue with porpoising, so they’re unlikely to have to change much.  

Ferrari do have a porpoising issue but it’s not hurting their performance.  But they’ll have to change their car setup now to eliminate the porpoising, which will hurt.

And Merc have a serious issue which is injuring their drivers and crippling their performance.  They’re not sure they can actually dial it out with ride height adjustment; apparently at Monaco they jacked the rear suspension up as far as it would go, and it was still bouncing about like a demented Zebedee.

It’s a serious issue and needs to be dealt with.  Apparently there were technical solutions available, but the FIA have gone for the approach which favours teams who are already on top of it.  The days of FIA standing for Ferrari International Aid are long past.

dazzajl

Ferrari and Mercedes are largely brands for old men and Liberty want to sell the F1 brand to folks that are much more the Red Bill demographic. 

RiftAmps

https://youtu.be/yqQP_XuJGp8