The F1 thread

Simonh

Also (and I haven't seen this so can't verify) later in the interview comments that he hates Hamilton so that would lend it to the first meaning rather than the latter.

stickyfiddle

Piquet also has a history of being a bit of a shit - talking trash about Senna & Mansell, and being matey with Bolsonaro. 

fretmeister

TeleMaster said:

And what time do you normally leave each day? 

At least an hour after the last race.

You can wander round again for an hour or you can sit in a traffic jam for an hour.

Far more fun to stay, have another burger and have a better look at the stands while 3/4 of the crowd are out of the way.

Cols

Simonh said:

Cols said:

sinbaadi said:

Well they won't want to put themselves at risk legally so they won't use his name.

Same reason why Lewis hasn't (afaik?) responded?

The comments were made on broadcast footage.  Piquet has no grounds for deniability.

But he was speaking in Portuguese and apparently the word has two meanings, one meaning what it means and the other a term of affection… guess which way he will defend it.

The approximate translation of what was said is as follows, commenting on the Verstappen/Hamilton crash at Silverstone last year:

"The little n****r put the car in and left because there was no way to pass two cars on that corner. He made a joke. Lucky for him, only the other one got f****d up.”

It would be extremely difficult to argue that it was being used as a term of affection.

Simonh

And yet that is exactly what is happening, or that the word does not have the same racist meaning in brazil so therefore it wasn't meant in a racist way.

which is utter bollocks.

goldtop

Simonh said:

And yet that is exactly what is happening, or that the word does not have the same racist meaning in brazil so therefore it wasn't meant in a racist way.

which is utter bollocks.

No, no, no - they are running with this. Rodrigo Piquet has said that lovely granny Piquet called all of them this name:



So that's granny thrown under the bus. And MV's girlfriend is following her ... anyone else?

TeleMaster

fretmeister said:

TeleMaster said:

And what time do you normally leave each day? 

At least an hour after the last race.

You can wander round again for an hour or you can sit in a traffic jam for an hour.

Far more fun to stay, have another burger and have a better look at the stands while 3/4 of the crowd are out of the way.

Thank you. I'm so excited. I'm gonna take a ton of pictures. I'll post some. 

Cols

Simonh said:

And yet that is exactly what is happening, or that the word does not have the same racist meaning in brazil so therefore it wasn't meant in a racist way.

which is utter bollocks.

Ultimately, for a term to be considered offensive all that's required is for someone to take offence at it.  Whether it's reasonable for them to take offence is another matter, but in this case it's pretty clear.

A century ago the English equivalent was in common use as a descriptive term, and wouldn't have been considered unacceptable.  Now it is.  The only time it 's ever seen to be used in a non-offensive way now is as a term of camaraderie within a group of people who could be slurred by it.

If anyone's seeking to excuse Piquet's language by airily claiming that it's just a harmless term of affection in Portuguese, that says rather a lot about their attitude towards black people. 

euan

It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his dad is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Marko is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Horner is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his girlfriend and her family are arseholes

Company you keep though eh?

danishbacon

As a native Brazilian Portuguese speaker (and married to one) I had a discussion about this yesterday.

Neguinho (masculine) or neguinha (feminine) can be literally translated into the diminutive of 'black', or as the outlets have referred to as 'little-black' - but it's the meaning and contextual usage of the word does not translate directly. There is no endearing way of using the 'little-black' translation as a white english speaker. In the original brazilian portuguese version, there is. This has been a line of defence that the piquet family has taken.

Some context:

It's a multiracial country and the term is often used affectionately or neutrally (though it can be used pejoratively) across races.

For example, it can be used as a replacement for 'dude' or 'guy', even when the dude or guy are white, without negative connotations (at least not intended or inferred, more on this later). There are plenty of references of the word in popular brazilian music referencing neguinha or neguinho in manners different to which I have heard the n-word used in English language popular music. That's not to say it's not a racist term however as language is not static. 

I've heard the interview back a couple of times and as a native speaker its use seems ambiguous, it could have been the colloquial 'dude' usage but with possibility of it having been used in an diminishing racial way. 

'O neguinho se enfiou ali' - piquet could very well be translated (and understood) to 'the guy inserted himself in that position' (when referencing the verstappen crash).

The more explicitly pejorative term in Portuguese, equivalent to the n-word is 'preto' or 'Criolo' (but not always....), and using this word would have carried a far clearer intention. I would question whether Piquet uses the term to refer to anyone (maybe he calls his daughter neguinha?) or if it was used exclusively to refer to Hamilton. Would he have used the term if it had been Schumacher instead of Hamilton? Could very well have, but knowing the behaviours of his socio-political class, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have used Schumacher's name instead of the 'informal', man/bro outlined below.

Meaning of Nego

male noun

[Informal] Who cannot be determined; Man, bro.

[Popular] Used as someone's name or to call someone.

[Popular] Affectionate treatment given to someone; Love: Come here, my.

[Pejorative] Person of dark skin by excess pigmentation; black.

There is no 'positive' direct translation of this word in the english language, certainly not one that has equivalent racial origins.

Two interesting discussions below, in portuguese but that can be google translated.

Nega explica porque o meme “nego” é racista (geledes.org.br) - why the term Nego (or neguinha), having been added to a visual meme with racial reference, is explicitly racist.

A dois meses dos 70 anos, Piquet descobre. Usar 'neguinho' para Hamilton é inaceitável. Termo não é politicamente incorreto. É racista - Prisma - R7 Cosme Rímoli - outlines that the term is indeed racist

So what?

So, we can safely argue that in this context, the word was not used for affection or as use of 'name/nickname'. If the word was used as per the 'informal' use outlined above, it was disrespectful. If the word was used in the pejorative, the reprehension is warranted.

It seems that this poster also came to a similar conclusion: Piquet said the term "neguinho", I would like to talk about it to whoever is learning brazilian portuguese. : Portuguese (reddit.com) 

"Now lets dive in into the use that Piquet made of this word. He called LH "o neguinho" 3 times. He called all the other drivers or by their names, or by "o outro", the other one.

Notice that Piquet said: "o neguinho". If it were "um neguinho" it could have been claimed that he was using the first meaning of the word, in a way to say "a guy", but that is not the case."

Maybe the colloquial use of the word will eventually need to be discussed within Brazilian society, but that is something that they themselves will have to grapple with - decide what is acceptable and is not, and I think the three links above offer some insight into where the conversation is going.

RiftAmps

euan said:

It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his dad is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Marko is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Horner is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his girlfriend and her family are arseholes

Company you keep though eh?

On that theory then we're all d*ckheads based on some of the people who frequent this forum

fretmeister

euan said:

It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his dad is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Marko is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Horner is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his girlfriend and her family are arseholes

Company you keep though eh?

Didn’t Max call someone a “retard” on the car radio ?

chillidoggy

Apparently, there’s a rumour circulating about some or other motor race going on this weekend.

Emiel

chillidoggy said:

Apparently, there’s a rumour circulating about some or other motor race going on this weekend.

Haven't heard of that. Thought the Goodwood Festival of Speed happened last week? 

euan

RiftAmps said:

euan said:

It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his dad is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Marko is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault Horner is an arsehole
It’s not Max Verstappen’s fault his girlfriend and her family are arseholes

Company you keep though eh?

On that theory then we're all d*ckheads based on some of the people who frequent this forum

Taking the comment at face value different between informal and formal relationships. 

In spirit, yes we are. 

TimmyO

danishbacon said:

As a native Brazilian Portuguese speaker (and married to one) I had a discussion about this yesterday.

Neguinho (masculine) or neguinha (feminine) can be literally translated into the diminutive of 'black', or as the outlets have referred to as 'little-black' - but it's the meaning and contextual usage of the word does not translate directly. There is no endearing way of using the 'little-black' translation as a white english speaker. In the original brazilian portuguese version, there is. This has been a line of defence that the piquet family has taken.

Some context:

It's a multiracial country and the term is often used affectionately or neutrally (though it can be used pejoratively) across races.

For example, it can be used as a replacement for 'dude' or 'guy', even when the dude or guy are white, without negative connotations (at least not intended or inferred, more on this later). There are plenty of references of the word in popular brazilian music referencing neguinha or neguinho in manners different to which I have heard the n-word used in English language popular music. That's not to say it's not a racist term however as language is not static. 

I've heard the interview back a couple of times and as a native speaker its use seems ambiguous, it could have been the colloquial 'dude' usage but with possibility of it having been used in an diminishing racial way. 

'O neguinho se enfiou ali' - piquet could very well be translated (and understood) to 'the guy inserted himself in that position' (when referencing the verstappen crash).

The more explicitly pejorative term in Portuguese, equivalent to the n-word is 'preto' or 'Criolo' (but not always....), and using this word would have carried a far clearer intention. I would question whether Piquet uses the term to refer to anyone (maybe he calls his daughter neguinha?) or if it was used exclusively to refer to Hamilton. Would he have used the term if it had been Schumacher instead of Hamilton? Could very well have, but knowing the behaviours of his socio-political class, I wouldn't be surprised if he would have used Schumacher's name instead of the 'informal', man/bro outlined below.

Meaning of Nego

male noun

[Informal] Who cannot be determined; Man, bro.

[Popular] Used as someone's name or to call someone.

[Popular] Affectionate treatment given to someone; Love: Come here, my.

[Pejorative] Person of dark skin by excess pigmentation; black.

There is no 'positive' direct translation of this word in the english language, certainly not one that has equivalent racial origins.

Two interesting discussions below, in portuguese but that can be google translated.

Nega explica porque o meme “nego” é racista (geledes.org.br) - why the term Nego (or neguinha), having been added to a visual meme with racial reference, is explicitly racist.

A dois meses dos 70 anos, Piquet descobre. Usar 'neguinho' para Hamilton é inaceitável. Termo não é politicamente incorreto. É racista - Prisma - R7 Cosme Rímoli - outlines that the term is indeed racist

So what?

So, we can safely argue that in this context, the word was not used for affection or as use of 'name/nickname'. If the word was used as per the 'informal' use outlined above, it was disrespectful. If the word was used in the pejorative, the reprehension is warranted.

It seems that this poster also came to a similar conclusion: Piquet said the term "neguinho", I would like to talk about it to whoever is learning brazilian portuguese. : Portuguese (reddit.com) 

"Now lets dive in into the use that Piquet made of this word. He called LH "o neguinho" 3 times. He called all the other drivers or by their names, or by "o outro", the other one.

Notice that Piquet said: "o neguinho". If it were "um neguinho" it could have been claimed that he was using the first meaning of the word, in a way to say "a guy", but that is not the case."

Maybe the colloquial use of the word will eventually need to be discussed within Brazilian society, but that is something that they themselves will have to grapple with - decide what is acceptable and is not, and I think the three links above offer some insight into where the conversation is going.

Thanks for that - very interesting/insightful 

Cols

Piquet has now gone for the classic non-apology of “I’m sorry that you were offended by what I said”, with a side order of “I strongly condemn any suggestion that the word was used by me with the aim of belittling a driver because of his skin colour.”

See, we’re the bad guys for thinking he was being a racist arsehole just because of the actual words he used.

“https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/piquet-apologises-for-hamilton-comment-claims-no-racial-intent/10329999/

sinbaadi

Well now that we know what he meant, maybe he would like to use it some more?  Like to people's faces?

I am sure a lot of misunderstandings could be avoided if people are just given the opportunity to explain what they meant.

stickyfiddle

Well it's given RB a clear excuse to fire Vips unambiguously, which reduces the pressure on their junior program somewhat.

fretmeister

I see Bernie's gone on Gammon News to tell everyone he'd take a bullet for Putin.

WTF does anyone care what he things about anything anymore?