New UK made offset bridge

guitargeek62

I hope so!

Sassafras

Relax, I was joking.

dangriffiths

I have a Mastery set on two guitars but have always had to have foam under the strings to stop all the rattles, overtones and metallic weirdness so will be interested. Think it looks fine too - more tuneomatic than standard bridge but works for me. 

GoldenEraGuitars

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

stickyfiddle

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

GoldenEraGuitars

stickyfiddle said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Ha! Surely John and I aren’t in agreement about something??

I actually don’t like the string spacing of the Mastery. But I know everyone is different. I genuinely don’t have an issue with the original bridge, I guess it saves me a bit of cash huh?

jellybelly

stickyfiddle said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Usually they're awful but the one that came with my AV65 Jag never missed a beat. 

Still swapped it for a StayTrem because I CANT LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. But a pleasant surprise nevertheless. 

Interested in this, but if price is in line with a Mastery then it's a hard sell over the StayTrem, just as the Mastery is (IMO)...

distressed

jellybelly said:

stickyfiddle said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Usually they're awful but the one that came with my AV65 Jag never missed a beat.

I've found it depends on the quality of the parts. For instance, I've swapped bridge post screws on both Mustang and chinese JM bridge, for quality and longer M3 ones, and they don't sink anymore, even with non stop divebombing. No need for Loctite hacks. And that probably means that I could swap the saddle screws also, to prevent occasional rattling. Think Staytrem, which is basically affordable Mustang bridge made of quality parts, nothing more.

Mastery is a no go for me because 1) expensive 2) alters the tone considerably 3) is non rocking. Not to mention other issues. I chose to play JM because of that sound and because of the rocking bridge. YMMV.

GavRichList

jellybelly said:

stickyfiddle said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Usually they're awful but the one that came with my AV65 Jag never missed a beat. 

Still swapped it for a StayTrem because I CANT LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE. But a pleasant surprise nevertheless. 

Interested in this, but if price is in line with a Mastery then it's a hard sell over the StayTrem, just as the Mastery is (IMO)...

Hot take: if the prices were reversed I’d still prefer the Staytrem over the mastery. 

ICBM

GoldenEraGuitars said:

stickyfiddle said:

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Ha! Surely John and I aren’t in agreement about something??

Yes . I gigged my original '65 Jag almost exclusively for about five years with its original bridge, it never caused the slightest trouble.

OK, I did set it up somewhat differently from normal - bridge low, saddles high to jam the intonation screws in their holes (and I had to file down the tip of the low E screw to stop it touching the string), widened the low E string groove slightly to stop the string jumping out, and threadlocked everything very thoroughly... but like that, it was bombproof.

So perhaps not quite "nothing wrong with them as stock", but definitely fixable, and I still prefer them to these modern contraptions.

GavRichList

ICBM said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

stickyfiddle said:

No, I think @ICBM likes them too. You're both wrong :P 

Ha! Surely John and I aren’t in agreement about something??

Yes . I gigged my original '65 Jag almost exclusively for about five years with its original bridge, it never caused the slightest trouble.

OK, I did set it up somewhat differently from normal - bridge low, saddles high to jam the intonation screws in their holes (and I had to file down the tip of the low E screw to stop it touching the string), widened the low E string groove slightly to stop the string jumping out, and threadlocked everything very thoroughly... but like that, it was bombproof.

So perhaps not quite "nothing wrong with them as stock", but definitely fixable, and I still prefer them to these modern contraptions.

Sounds like you want a Staytrem 

ICBM

GavRichList said:

Sounds like you want a Staytrem 

No, the string radius is wrong for me on those. I prefer the radius a bit flatter than the fingerboard, with the bass side quite a lot higher than the treble. You need individually-adjustable saddles for that.

Tuffset

Hello all!

I'm Dan, the inventor of the Tuffset Bridge. I also post as Deed_Poll over on OSG.

I'm an old hand on several forums, but new to The Fretboard, so thanks for having me!

First thing is first - on pricing, £412 isn't a number that came from us! Though maybe if you had all been gung ho for it, I might have been tempted!

I hate to be cagey about the price, but I'm still working with manufacturers to price competitively without sacrificing the functionality, quality or the UK-based manufacturing of the bridge - all of which are absolute dealbreakers for me.

I accept that it seems a bit like a "go fund me" or something, but there are good reasons the pre-launch / soft launch looks the way it does.

I have funded everything from the patenting to the prototyping to the nuts and bolts myself, out of my own pocket. I'm in this to the tune of tens of thousands of pounds at this point; and that's because I wanted to make sure everything about the design was bulletproof - not just performance, but engineering for manufacture. After maybe a dozen iterations, it is now finally at that point. The only question is how many we can make. Obviously, the more orders and interest we get, the lower the price can be.

I just felt it was the fairest and most transparent way to share in the project with anyone interested, and not to take your money until we have a physical bridge to send you. Signing up to the list doesn't commit you to making that purchase so you might ask, "what's the point"? But it's extremely valuable to us in our decision making as regards manufacturing volume. We want you to make an informed decision, not just create a wave of hype and expectation.

Having said all that, even if we pre-sold a million, it couldn't be priced like the StayTrem. I've always been a massive fan of that bridge, and it was my go-to for many years - I'm amazed John can offer the quality he does for the price he charges (in fact, I only started pursuing the idea of designing my own rocking Offset bridge when there were murmurings about StayTrem winding down the operation, and I found myself wondering for the first time what I would do without them!).

The Tuffset is very challenging to produce, though it does have certain advantages over the StayTrem - namely the individual height adjustment and locking functionality of the posts and saddles. It's been designed from the ground-up to be a world-beating rocking bridge, and that's why we say it "Changes Everything".

Because, for all that the marketplace for Offset bridges has swollen a lot recently, all recent comers without exception seem to be of the mind that what's needed is a fixed post / low-friction saddle arrangement. And in my opinion, this is false. I hold the proof in my hand - and I hope many of you will soon hold the same proof!

The problem was never the rocking action.

Rather, the issues are a cause of the wholesale transplant of a "traditional" bridge adjustment blueprint into a context that makes completely different physical demands of the hardware. This is why even some very expensive aftermarket bridges still have problems with the springs and general looseness, even as they deplete the adjustability from the bridge. Downward pressure is an issue - but it's the complete lack of forward pressure that is imperative. You can't depend on springs to make a firm, positive contact when the vibrato is pushing and pulling the saddles, especially if you've constrained the bridge chassis in position. There's nothing else for them to do but move.

This is why I wasn't surprised to see StayTrems going for $300 on eBay. The StayTrem, even then, was two steps ahead of what many would consider to be today's gold standard. It correctly identifies the springs and looseness of adjustment as the culprit. Those in the States who "get" the rocking functionality and what it brings had no other option than to pay through the nose for them.

But I digress! Let's have a better look at these questions and see if I can answer them a bit more concisely.

Tuffset

"Ugly, innit "

as the bridge's parent, I couldn't possibly comment! Although I would say, it very definitely has a "front" and a "back" side. I like to put mine on with the adjustment gubbins facing the bridge pickup, so when viewing the guitar from anywhere behind the bridge it looks a bit more traditional, like this:

"Changes everything? Why? There are already several bridges on the market that solve all the old problems and look better than that"

I guess I already covered that a few paragraphs ago. You are quite entitled to your opinion, and if all your Offset bridge needs are being catered for to your satisfaction, then I am glad for you! I truly am

"Looks great, interesting approach, improves the sustain but how does affects the harmonics of an offset guitar?

Anything that improves or gives options in the offset world is welcome! "

Thank you very much for the kind words! The harmonics are an interesting one. For one thing, there is a clear distinction harmonically between a fixed-post/low-friction bridge and a rocking/high-friction bridge - and that is because a rocking bridge leaves the speaking length of the string at liberty to expand and contract with the vibrato modulation. This keeps the harmonics pure (1st order, 2nd, 3rd etc. are all still integer divisions of the speaking length regardless of how you modulate pitch).

Another way of looking at this is, a fixed-post bridge has to feed "dead" string length from behind the bridge into the speaking length of the string when divebombing (and vice versa for pulling up), so the harmonics get messed around a bit whilst you're using the vibrato. I personally attribute the slight slide-guitar "hiss" or "whine" to this phenomenon, and that's a quality I associate with Bigsbys and similar.

"Claims it’s patented, not sure if that claim is true."

My bank manager will tell you so! Never have I paid so handsomely to give myself homework... Ouch!

""If suspended and struck, it rings like a chime." Sounds interesting but might be a bit fiddly to get it out so you can do that. I wonder what the deal is with the post adjustment. In some of the photos it shows a hole and in others a sort of screwdriver slotted head. I think it looks alright but price will be a critical factor as far as I'm concerned. Interesting nonetheless."

It is fiddly! I'm planning to do a video in slow motion to demonstrate. I can basically hang it from the thread of one post and strike it - it goes "Dinnnnnnngggggg!", not "clack."

"I can see the idea behind it: staytrem is limited to two radius options and Mastery is known to rattle. There are a few other options about, but they often tend to be cheaply made. I’m interested, but a competitive cost paired with reliability are going to be my key motivators and that waits to be seen."

Precisely the equation that occupies my days and nights! I hope you will try one, and be pleased

"Conspicuous by its absence is the price.

"No rattles", they say. No sounds of my piggy bank being emptied either.

The venture smacks of a crowd funded project that may - or may not - come to fruition."

I explained this a little further up, apologies for not repeating it here! But I do understand your cynicism about crowdfunders and suchlike. The bridge will be priced competitively with the more well-known American options, but is very different in philosophy, so set your expectations accordingly, I suppose!

"You lot are a right bunch of grumps. It looks interesting. Mastery is *great* but isn't fully adjustable for radius or intonation, as much as their PR guys will swear it is. And the Staytrem has literally zero radius adjustment. 

The guy on OSG is legit and I hope he succeeds - he's been working on this for years https://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=111312 ; ;"

Thank you very kindly sir! I do not mean to embarrass anyone by showing up - on the contrary, it's really valuable to hear people's truly honest opinions

"What a miserable bunch of...

Actually, its better looking than the Mastery (IMHO).

The Mastery has its own set of issues including rattles and creaks when using the trem as the saddles can move when the tension drops - I flagged it to Woody at the time and he said something along the lines of 'noted - will look into it' and that was that. I've also had them drop - ie you are then back into the realms of threadlock etc.  I'm a fan, but they aren't perfect.

The Staytrem looks like the OEM bridge (ish) but as pointed out above isn't radius adjustable. 

I'm really happy to see another way of looking at the issues  - and another option. "

And I'm very happy to see this post, with certain themes that are familiar! It actually surprised me how well the locking posts worked. I can hear a difference if I lock it mid-note, if you can believe it!

"Have also experienced all of the above with Mastery bridges. When they're set up perfectly they are as good as it gets, but that's a far more difficult thing to achieve than they'd have you believe. Even then, yes, they can drop. I had one on my Jag for years and it was exceptional... right up until it dropped on one side during a gig. And the lateral movement of the saddles is hugely irritating and causes tonnes of rattles; there's a fine balance to be struck between the height of the baseplate and the height of the saddles. Even with 11s on, you need to make sure your downward force is dialled in. Staytem is the one for me. Doesn't sound *quite* as good as the Mastery, but is more sympathetic to vibrato use, and is a real set and forget bridge. As long as your height and intonation are done, they'll never cause you a single issue. "

I couldn't possibly comment!

Tuffset

"I don't have an issue with its claim - It looks better on the guitar then off it 

But the big issues as far as I can see - No price - So assume I want to buy one, where do I buy it and order it  - Chances are it will be sold directly - I don't see your 'box shifting' stores stocking it as that would add to the retail price - It's initial impact will be via such forums as here etc and relevant social media channels - So a price and how to order should be there - It looks like you can join an e-mail waiting list - But surely they must have some available stock now - Can't believe they've only built one so far - They've got me excited but I can't buy now - Big downer IMO

Therefore strong marks so far for the design etc but no marks for the companies 'commercial' aspect 

The link that @freakboy1610 posted tells you far more inc info about its patent and steel construction plus tolerances to its build

https://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=126191

Again this info should be on his own site"

Cheers! Yes, it was designed to look good *on* the guitar. I feel a lot of boutique bridges, pickups - everything really, has a bit too much branding and writing all over it and I've never been a fan of that. With guitars as beautiful as old JMs, Jags and Mustangs, the last thing I'd want to do is distract the eye from the overall scheme.

On the website info, I'm sure you can believe that my nature is to write far too much and too long-windedly, but I had the counsel of others to wisely step in when I get too waffly. I hope you will ask any questions here, and I will do my best to answer them as comprehensively as possible (for that is the forum way!)

It will be available very soon - not like a "crowdfunder", though I can understand the confusion. I have the files, I have the drawings, I have the factory - all we need is a number. I have the horse, I need the bet!

"He says price will be 'in-line with other boutique bridge makers', so I reckon around £150? Def can't see it being as cheap as Staytrem, and I imagine some of the perceived value may be in the shorter waiting time. "

I couldn't possibly comment!

"I like it! I'm on the waitlist, I'll try one out on an offset build in the new year "

"Me too. I'm happy to try one on my main JM "

Fantastic! Very glad to have you both aboard!

Anyway, this post has gotten out of hand! Sorry it's so long, I'll check back tomorrow or Wednesday and see if you have any more questions.

Cheers and best to all!

Dan

Kittyfrisk

Hi Dan & welcome aboard. I think that you might have a few opportunities to discuss aspects of your bridge with the more experienced members here, hope it's all positive  
Good luck with your venture  

UnclePsychosis

Welcome Dan and good luck with the venture. 

I for one would like to thank all of you for reminding me why I have managed to resist offset GAS all these years. Any guitar that needs faffing about with to this extent just isn't for me!!  

GavRichList

@tuffset apologies for the rather glib comment about the aesthetic. Didn’t look great quoted back. That said, to my eyes it looks too close to a TOM for me to personally like the visuals. I’m sure there’ll be many more who don’t care. Certainly seems like you’ve considered an awful lot of the issues with both the stock and particularly the Mastery. (I have a some love but mostly hate relationship with the latter) and if it turns out you’ve absolutely nailed it, I fully reserve the right to change my mind and order one with some humble pie. 

Loobs

Fwiw I never had any issues with the Mastery aside from a slightly creak, but that was fixed by lubricating the saddles a bit. I also have a 1-degree shim in the neck pocket and use 11s. The thing has been as good as gold - knock on wood.

GavRichList

@loobs 11s and a wound G here too. They are still fully capable of being a bag of rattles.