New UK made offset bridge

Loobs

I guess my experience with the Mastery is one of the few truly successful in my life. 

Kittyfrisk

Loobs said:

I guess my experience with the Mastery is one of the few truly successful in my life. 

Mastery & Servant.
I love a happy ending.

Funkfingers

@Tuffset Do you have enough working prototypes to demonstrate your product at music industry trade shows?

Guitarists need to see and hear the thing in action (and compare it to rival products) to be convinced.

Also, on behalf of the Baritone fraternity, will there eventually be a wider version to suit the Bass VI?

Pabcrane

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t seem to have an issue with a traditional jazzmaster or offset bridge? I’ve never experienced the apparent issues that need fixed.

No, I've not had much of an issue with mine.

I've got an 80s Japanese Jazzmaster, when I bought it a previous owner had deepened a slot on the low E string but apart from that it's stock.

I think I've had had the bridge screws unwind themselves a couple of times in over fifteen years, so maybe we've been fortunate given that it seems others have felt the need to change their bridges

Philly_Q

I've never owned or even played a Jag or Jazzmaster, but I am absolutely fascinated by the aftermarket hardware.

Seziertisch

Loobs said:

Fwiw I never had any issues with the Mastery aside from a slightly creak, but that was fixed by lubricating the saddles a bit. I also have a 1-degree shim in the neck pocket and use 11s. The thing has been as good as gold - knock on wood.

The Mastery is actually a rocking design, as in the saddles themselves rock ever so slightly even though the bridge is fixed. I have a Mastery Tele bridge and the saddles on that do it as well.

GavRichList

Seziertisch said:

Loobs said:

Fwiw I never had any issues with the Mastery aside from a slightly creak, but that was fixed by lubricating the saddles a bit. I also have a 1-degree shim in the neck pocket and use 11s. The thing has been as good as gold - knock on wood.

The Mastery is actually a rocking design, as in the saddles themselves rock ever so slightly even though the bridge is fixed. I have a Mastery Tele bridge and the saddles on that do it as well.

They’re not meant to though. On a Mastery I mean. 99% sure John said as much. 

Seziertisch

GavRichList said:

Seziertisch said:

Loobs said:

Fwiw I never had any issues with the Mastery aside from a slightly creak, but that was fixed by lubricating the saddles a bit. I also have a 1-degree shim in the neck pocket and use 11s. The thing has been as good as gold - knock on wood.

The Mastery is actually a rocking design, as in the saddles themselves rock ever so slightly even though the bridge is fixed. I have a Mastery Tele bridge and the saddles on that do it as well.

They’re not meant to though. On a Mastery I mean. 99% sure John said as much. 

I know, but I have 3 of them (2 regulars and a Tele-style) and they all do it. All of them are rock solid/stable in terms of tuning stability, though the two regular ones have required a dab of threadlock to prevent the saddles from vibrating down.

I thought I had set the regular ones set up incorrectly when I first noticed it, but then when I checked the Tele-style, which is like a variation on a regular Tele 3-saddle style plate bridge, I saw it was doing the same thing and that there was nothing I could set any differently, as in there were no screws I had failed to tighten properly that might have caused this.

Edit: The play which results in the rocking motion comes from the mounting holes for the string length/saddle location adjustment screws at the back of the bridge being a little bit oversized for the screws. This is likely unavoidable as the screws will always need to be at a little bit of an angle to match the string height.

impmann

GavRichList said:

Seziertisch said:

Loobs said:

Fwiw I never had any issues with the Mastery aside from a slightly creak, but that was fixed by lubricating the saddles a bit. I also have a 1-degree shim in the neck pocket and use 11s. The thing has been as good as gold - knock on wood.

The Mastery is actually a rocking design, as in the saddles themselves rock ever so slightly even though the bridge is fixed. I have a Mastery Tele bridge and the saddles on that do it as well.

They’re not meant to though. On a Mastery I mean. 99% sure John said as much. 

Yup, he certainly did say. I'd also venture that my first Mastery didn't do that - or creak and rattle as a result. Hence why I flagged it to Woody back when I had a JM but I didn't get a resolution to the issue from them.

Don't get me wrong, the Mastery is excellent and I like the sonic changes (improvements IMHO) they bring, but the movement is *wrong* and contributes to rattles and creaks that should not be there, especially at the price point.

GuitarForm

Sorry posted on wrong account and can't figure out how to delete!

Tuffset

Really interesting discussion!

First of all and most importantly, if you're having a great time with a Mastery or whichever bridge you currently have on your guitar, that's the best case scenario and I'm not here to tell you you're wrong or crazy! 

I'm not going to tell you to rip apart a guitar that's working for you right now and leaving nothing on the table.

But it is very interesting that the conversation and your experiences are mirroring almost exactly what the physics of a traditional-style height/intonation adjustment says it should, in the context of an Offset guitar.

The "journey" we've been on with the Tuffset (if you'll excuse the pretentious language) has been one of discovering that the real culprits are the springs and the overall geometry of how the height and intonation are set, resulting in the bridge being less-than compatible with what the surrounding design is telling it to do.

What seems interesting to me is that almost all boutique "solutions" fixate on having multiple strings share a saddle. This keeps the downward pressure on the height set screws high, so that's one problem tackled - but it really does nothing for the intonation screws, or this issue with location against springs. The fixed posts exacerbate this instability under vibrato use.

As I said at the top, if it's working for you then don't change it! But I definitely think it's fair to say that rocking on the springs is *not* purposefully how it was designed to function, as it's inherently unstable.

The rocking action, far from being a problem, is really what makes the whole thing work properly and keep tune - as well as bringing the vibe and character many people treasure about their Offset guitars.

Tuffset

GavRichList said:

@tuffset apologies for the rather glib comment about the aesthetic. Didn’t look great quoted back. That said, to my eyes it looks too close to a TOM for me to personally like the visuals. I’m sure there’ll be many more who don’t care. Certainly seems like you’ve considered an awful lot of the issues with both the stock and particularly the Mastery. (I have a some love but mostly hate relationship with the latter) and if it turns out you’ve absolutely nailed it, I fully reserve the right to change my mind and order one with some humble pie. 

No problem at all! I genuinely mean it - it's much more useful to read unfiltered, genuine opinions than polite praise.

What I would say about the appearance: 

- The TOM-like appearance also jarred with me a bit when I saw the 2.1 (photographed) prototype in a guitar for the first time. I have since added some extra width (parallel to the string) to the design, to make it basically the same "graphic" as a vintage bridge (which is to say, if you drew around it onto the pickguard, it would be just about the same dimensions and shape). That goes for the rounded ends too.

- It's a weakness of the info displayed on the website that I don't yet have a physical prototype with the new dimensions. As a result, all pictures of the bridge *not* mounted to a guitar are renders of the production-ready "correct" dimensions (broader), but all pictures photographed on guitars are of the "old" TOM-looking dimensions. I suppose the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.

- Adding the extra width has also allowed some more intonation adjustment range, 11mm in total - better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!

- I acknowledge the styling is a bit different from a normal Offset bridge, it has tall shoulders rather than the pleasing tapered "cigar" shape of the original. I've had several people asking whether it will fit a vintage bridge cover - it won't, but it's actually not impossible to do a version that will. That would have slightly shorter post tops and the shoulders would essentially be chopped off. I don't think it would look as good without the cover on, but it's subjective!

I also would like to say, that humble pie would not be necessary! It would be thanks enough that you like it enough to find a place for it, if indeed you can. It's wise to have a healthy cynicism about these things - after all there are very many other products that have popped into the marketplace recently!

Cheers

Tuffset

Funkfingers said:

@Tuffset Do you have enough working prototypes to demonstrate your product at music industry trade shows?

Guitarists need to see and hear the thing in action (and compare it to rival products) to be convinced.

Also, on behalf of the Baritone fraternity, will there eventually be a wider version to suit the Bass VI?

Not currently - but only today I have been corresponding with the organiser of The Guitar Show to get a pitch for 2024. I saw from the room plan that The Fretboard will also have a pitch, so I hope I can see you there!

We will have product long before that, and have a list of people to send examples for review and comment. So hopefully that will help you make an informed decision, too  

citesquestion

Maybe a stupid question but what problems of the JM are swapped by updating the vibrato vs the bridge? My vague understanding is that it doesn't particularly work well with anything below 11s when it comes to strings so folks have come up with replacements for both.

With bridge, hanging radius is good but thought some Jaguar bridges come with height adjustable saddles. If I swap the vibrato for one of the fancy Masteries, can I use 10s? 

Or the bridge needs to be locking for a reason?

Tuffset

I can only speak for certain of the Tuffset I have installed in my '65 JM - I made a point to set it up with slinkies (10s, light bottom) and it works great. That guitar worked alright with 10s before on account of the corroded saddles being easy for the strings to grip onto, but it's a much clearer and fuller sounding package now, and has a solidity that is confidence inspiring. I'm finding I don't have to "play around" the bridge now - I can hit it harder and get my dynamics that way (as I'm used to doing with Fenders).

The locking functionality directly, and indirectly the fact of all screws being "square" and "plum" relative to other aspects of the bridge geometry, are the reason for this  

citesquestion

Tuffset said:

I can only speak for certain of the Tuffset I have installed in my '65 JM - I made a point to set it up with slinkies (10s, light bottom) and it works great. That guitar worked alright with 10s before on account of the corroded saddles being easy for the strings to grip onto, but it's a much clearer and fuller sounding package now, and has a solidity that is confidence inspiring. I'm finding I don't have to "play around" the bridge now - I can hit it harder and get my dynamics that way (as I'm used to doing with Fenders).

The locking functionality directly, and indirectly the fact of all screws being "square" and "plum" relative to other aspects of the bridge geometry, are the reason for this  

So basically there's just not enough tension in the bridge without some locking system? I look forward to the release – think it looks very cool. If you're looking for early orders, give a shout 

gumbothewiddler

Damn, this thread is making me want to buy a jazzmaster!

guitars4you

@Tuffset - not sure where you are based and other commitments - I exhibit at around 15 smaller guitar shows each year - More used and less corporate than The Guitar Show - More table top - One day shows - Far more cost effective - Don't mean this in away that means don't exhibit at The Guitar Show, but more do both - Cost from around £60-100 a stand 

http://www.mojoguitarshows.co.uk/
https://www.guitarshows.co.uk/
https://myclassicguitars.co.uk/northampton

The above are the site and organisers 

Just a shout, might be worth looking at working with another exhibitor, even a UK builder  or two, who likes your bridge and fits it to appropriate builds - Shared stand etc 

Squareheadedfreak

@tuffset Are there any plans for a run that fits Bass VI's?

Tuffset

citesquestion said:

Tuffset said:

I can only speak for certain of the Tuffset I have installed in my '65 JM - I made a point to set it up with slinkies (10s, light bottom) and it works great. That guitar worked alright with 10s before on account of the corroded saddles being easy for the strings to grip onto, but it's a much clearer and fuller sounding package now, and has a solidity that is confidence inspiring. I'm finding I don't have to "play around" the bridge now - I can hit it harder and get my dynamics that way (as I'm used to doing with Fenders).

The locking functionality directly, and indirectly the fact of all screws being "square" and "plum" relative to other aspects of the bridge geometry, are the reason for this  

So basically there's just not enough tension in the bridge without some locking system? I look forward to the release – think it looks very cool. If you're looking for early orders, give a shout 

Ah, so the locking functionality - I edited out a part on the website that goes into this, so probably best to explain it here.

All the locking is concerned only with locking together all the elements of the bridge (the saddles and wedges to the chassis, the inner post spikes to the outer posts). Every part of the bridge is fully locked together by the time you're done setting it up.

What it *doesn't* do is lock the strings. So it's not like the 1980s, taking your guitar to a tech to restring it!

Though it would make some sense to do so in this application, it actually isn't necessary. And that has big advantages for the ease of restringing the guitar, you can basically just treat it like any other bridge - stretch out the strings, or whatever else it is you like to do.

But yes, the Tuffset bridge itself is fully locking  

And yes by all means, please do join the mailing list on the Tuffset website and I'll send you an email when your bridge is ready to purchase

gumbothewiddler said:

Damn, this thread is making me want to buy a jazzmaster!

You don't need an excuse to buy a Jazzmaster!

guitars4you said:

@Tuffset - not sure where you are based and other commitments - I exhibit at around 15 smaller guitar shows each year - More used and less corporate than The Guitar Show - More table top - One day shows - Far more cost effective - Don't mean this in away that means don't exhibit at The Guitar Show, but more do both - Cost from around £60-100 a stand 

http://www.mojoguitarshows.co.uk/
https://www.guitarshows.co.uk/
https://myclassicguitars.co.uk/northampton

The above are the site and organisers 

Just a shout, might be worth looking at working with another exhibitor, even a UK builder  or two, who likes your bridge and fits it to appropriate builds - Shared stand etc 

Thanks for the heads up! I'll check them out - might be a good way to broaden the base of interest! Cheers