Getting the Clapton Tone.

maharg101

Rock Against Racism !

Here's the thing. I love Clapton's work with Yardbirds and Cream, and I also think 461 Ocean Boulevard is a classic.

But I abhor the racism. 

Can you separate the art from the artist ? It's difficult. Sometimes impossible. 

Does Clapton still believe that crap he spouted in 1976 ? Yes, he was fucked up through substance abuse during that period. But that's no excuse..I've taken all sorts, and never decided that facism was the way forward.

No conclusions here. Just some meandering thoughts.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

The type of pickups and the TBX control don't make much difference - the important factor is the 25dB mid boost circuit. That's *a lot*, and I suspect he often uses it full up, since apparently during the development of it, he kept asking for "more of the compressor" (as he referred to it).

I watched this video the other day, just by chance.  I may be misunderstanding, but he seems to think the TBX itself is a mid-boost between 5 and 10, which I didn't think was the case.  Anyway, for what it's worth...

Gassage

guitars4you said:

Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

This is like my Twitter feed- the eternal gravitational pull between Farage on one side and JSO on the other, interspersed with hot pics of Sergio Parisse and vids of two Karens fighting in a street every now and then.

guitars4you

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker 

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

Gassage

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker 

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

I have the rather more complex version of the EC midboost in my CS 35th Anni. It's lush as. The key is to roll volume off whilst using it.

guitars4you

Gassage said:

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker 

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

I have the rather more complex version of the EC midboost in my CS 35th Anni. It's lush as. The key is to roll volume off whilst using it.

I've never owned an EC Strat, but sold many over the years - I find that boost works better when applied in a more subtle way - Not full on - Not sure how EC uses it, but I find it a case of less is more - That is the advantage of it on the guitar as you can dial in/out as required - A pedal will be just on/off - But with the pedal you can then have it on every Strat you own now and in the future - I suppose it depends how much you love that guitar - As I said for me those small frets are a no go area - Interesting that he is one of the few, maybe only, guy with a Sig Strat and small/vintage frets  

Roland

Thread cleaned up.

guitars4you said:

Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Gassage

Roland said:

guitars4you said:

Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Sorry @Roland - I'm just starting " A Simple Guide to Pol Pot's amp settings" just to take the heat off this thread.

stickyfiddle

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

The type of pickups and the TBX control don't make much difference - the important factor is the 25dB mid boost circuit. That's *a lot*, and I suspect he often uses it full up, since apparently during the development of it, he kept asking for "more of the compressor" (as he referred to it).

I watched this video the other day, just by chance.  I may be misunderstanding, but he seems to think the TBX itself is a mid-boost between 5 and 10, which I didn't think was the case.  Anyway, for what it's worth...

Fender themselves disagree with him: https://www.fender.com/en-US/parts/controls-switches/tbx-tone-control-potentiometer-kit/0992052000.html ;

He's actually got it 100% wrong, which is impressive and hilarious. He says the midboost is on the middle pot (usually neck tone) and the TBX is the bottom pot (usually middle tone), when it's the TBX is the middle one and the active mid boost is on the lower pot. And if he's used his ears at any point he'd have been able to work this out. 

I guess it's hardly a surprise that the guy behind Vertex might not actually know shit about circuits. That was also the most wooden I've ever heard Layla played without the notes actually being wrong too... 

I'm constantly astonished and dismayed that he gets so much algorithm-airtime while being so frickin wrong so often. 

stickyfiddle

As for Clapton, he has all the gear already discussed but also fat sounding hands. I don't like the sound he makes with a guitar post-Layla, but it's a big chunk of just a very muscular sound from his fingers. I can do it too but I don't actually know how to describe how

guitars4you

Roland said:

Thread cleaned up.

guitars4you said:

Not sure why such topics change course so easily - A regular FB contributor wants some help/advice about acquiring a certain tone, so lets hop in and help as required

If the header was 'why is EC a total knob head and hated so much' then again join in as required - But that wasn't the question in this case

“Why is EC a total knob head and hated so much” is now available for viewing here:

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/253245/wyniro-s-thread-diversion

Hope I've not offended or caused any issue with my question/statement Roland - It was not aimed at our beloved leaders, I just got annoyed by the change of direction of what should be a sensible thread

RandallFlagg

To the original point, it is a good tone, I can never get Strats to sound anything but thin and spiky when I play them. I do think a lot of volume from a cooking amp helps, but I never get chance to do that these days. 

HandwrittenHero

guitars4you said:

That mid boost is key to a lot of his tone - Not so much on clean amp settings - In fact it can sound horrible on clean settings, especially if you apply to much - But from subtle gain to higher gain amp settings it kind of makes your 'thinner single coil voice' sound fatter, almost with the girth of a humbucker 

The plus factor with it built into the guitar, you can dial in what you need, as/when required - But equally if it is that good and useful I would not want to own an EC Strat (don't like his choice of small frets for starters) or have such an option fitted on to my existing guitars - So on that basis a floor pedal will offer a similar outcome - Be it a mid boost or an EQ pedal adjusted accordingly - A preamp or treble boost will do similar but the EC circuit is a mid boost so similar but not the same

Interesting that when EC and co did the Cream re-union gigs he stayed with his Strat and not any humbucker based guitars - Yet that Strat with the mid boost can kind of offer those 'fatter' humbucker tones , but retain the single coil highs, snap and attack

Mid boost Strat on my knee as I type, I'd agree with most of that.

Otherwise to add:
advantage of the circuit in the guitar is you have it all within tweak able distance on the fly and less to carry out to get a real variety of sound.
disadvantage of the circuit is it's active electronics so it's easier to give up on it ever playing nice with such as a germanium fuzz if that was the plan. It's also always on even in idle so even with vintagey pickups etc it's going to sound more muscular than an average Strat.

I like mine, it does a good job of being enough of a Strat. Fatter tone while still getting snap, attack and quack is on the money

Philly_Q

stickyfiddle said:

He's actually got it 100% wrong, which is impressive and hilarious. He says the midboost is on the middle pot (usually neck tone) and the TBX is the bottom pot (usually middle tone), when it's the TBX is the middle one and the active mid boost is on the lower pot. And if he's used his ears at any point he'd have been able to work this out. 

I guess it's hardly a surprise that the guy behind Vertex might not actually know shit about circuits. That was also the most wooden I've ever heard Layla played without the notes actually being wrong too... 

I'm constantly astonished and dismayed that he gets so much algorithm-airtime while being so frickin wrong so often. 

FWIW, I didn't know who he was - I still don't, to be honest - and I don't even know why YouTube guided me to that video, I hadn't been watching anything to do with Clapton or his guitars, or onboard circuits.

Although naturally enough, in my vast collection of parts and spares I do have a Clapton mid-boost kit which I've had for about 20 years and never installed.

guitartango

Sorry to change the subject slightly, are the American Pro II Strats any good for the CT ? 

ICBM

guitartango said:

Sorry to change the subject slightly, are the American Pro II Strats any good for the CT ? 

*Any* Strat will get you into the ballpark if you fit the mid-boost circuit, or use an offboard equivalent. I’m not saying all Strats and Strat pickups sound the same, but compared to the difference that makes, they do… the rest is just nuances, close enough that how you play matters more.

RandallFlagg

Would a pedal boost or OD such as a Klone not give similar results as the mid-boost circuit?

ICBM

RandallFlagg said:

Would a pedal boost or OD such as a Klone not give similar results as the mid-boost circuit?

No, not unless it’s a clean mid boost with at least 25dB gain. An overdrive pedal is quite different - even a middy one like a Tube Screamer.

HAL9000

Presumably some EQ pedals can give a mid boost?

Moe_Zambeek

Isn’t there a Demeter pedal that’s basically the Clapton boost in a box?