Acoustic ingredients for a particular sound?

bertie

Ive been trying to get a price and lead time  about getting an "off the shelf 37 with two custom additions"  but they simply do not respond

TimmyO

bertie said:

Ive been trying to get a price and lead time  about getting an "off the shelf 37 with two custom additions"  but they simply do not respond

That's a shame. 

I think in a perfect world I'd be able to compare an OM37 and the Toon at Intersound 

ICBM

TimmyO said:

Martin SC13 or whatever it’s called - their oddly shaped one. - eek - not nice sounding in comparison to any of the others (but to be fair, less spendy)

The surprising thing about these is that the 'eek' sound when you're playing it is not *at all* what it sounds like from in front of the guitar - it's astonishingly different, it projects so well that the sound going back towards the player is almost like an afterthought. One of the players at an acoustic jam session I go to has one, and from the other side of the circle it's genuinely one of the best-sounding guitars there... but nowhere near as good when I played it for myself.

Of course, that won't help if you're looking for something satisfying to play by yourself.

TimmyO

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

Martin SC13 or whatever it’s called - their oddly shaped one. - eek - not nice sounding in comparison to any of the others (but to be fair, less spendy)

The surprising thing about these is that the 'eek' sound when you're playing it is not *at all* what it sounds like from in front of the guitar - it's astonishingly different, it projects so well that the sound going back towards the player is almost like an afterthought. One of the players at an acoustic jam session I go to has one, and from the other side of the circle it's genuinely one of the best-sounding guitars there... but nowhere near as good when I played it for myself.

Of course, that won't help if you're looking for something satisfying to play by yourself.

Interesting. And yep the absolute priority is what it sounds like to me - to the point I was pondering the other day about guitars that have those side ports, but I think they are so uncommon that I'd be on a hiding to nothing trying to find some to try/compare

thomasross20

Same conclusions I was coming to.. almost word for word!

Tannin

Find a good place to sit where you are facing hard surfaces. I love sitting in front of a big window - the sound washes back over me wonderfully there.

thomasross20

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

Martin SC13 or whatever it’s called - their oddly shaped one. - eek - not nice sounding in comparison to any of the others (but to be fair, less spendy)

The surprising thing about these is that the 'eek' sound when you're playing it is not *at all* what it sounds like from in front of the guitar - it's astonishingly different, it projects so well that the sound going back towards the player is almost like an afterthought. One of the players at an acoustic jam session I go to has one, and from the other side of the circle it's genuinely one of the best-sounding guitars there... but nowhere near as good when I played it for myself.

Of course, that won't help if you're looking for something satisfying to play by yourself.

I actually think they are decent guitars (the SC13). They feel good, sound ok, look cool.

As you note, sound for player and listener is a bit different. Which leads me to think that should just get the one that feels the best as will be inspired to play it more. 

Re soundport, not something  I'd pay money for. 

thomasross20

Btw try "satin" Vs gloss. 
Gloss sounds more syrupy to me, stronger note punch when initially hit. Satin sounds more open, vibrant.  

Tannin

thomasross20 said:

Re soundport, not something  I'd pay money for. 

Well actually you should get a discount, same as you should for having a cutaway. I mean, think about it: in either case you get a little bit less guitar.

Tannin

Re satin V gloss, that isn't something I have ever tuned in to. Of my own guitars, 4 are satin and 4 are gloss. Without digging out the ordering paperwork I can't even remember which my new Brook is going to be - whichever is their standard and that will be fine.

The thing is, I can easily hear the effect of different strings by swapping them on the same guitar. (I've done that a zillion times.) And I can easily hear  the effect of a cutaway by playing two examples of the same model side-by-side, one with and one without. (I've done that at least half a dozen times.) And I can get pretty close to hearing the effect of different back timbers by playing similar models from the same maker in the same body shape. 

But different finishes? Off the top of my head I can't think of any standard production guitars which come in different finishes as routine. Some makers (such as Furch and Lakewood) will make their standard models with your choice of finish on request but generally speaking any particular shop orders its favourite options the same way every time so one can''t walk in and play two near-identical guitars with different finishes.

In any case, I'm not convinced that "gloss" and "satin" are anything like specific enough terms to be useful in this context. Which gloss? Which satin? The gloss finishes on my two best guitars (well, two most expensive ones) are very thin and I have every reason to believe the makers' claims to have put in endless research and development effort to come up with their high-tech high-gloss finishes. On the other hand, the thicker gloss finish on my two old Tacoma-built guitars, well, on the huge Thunderhawk jumbo it works just fine, on the much smaller Guild 00 maybe not. Or is it the Red Spruce top which makes it just a bit too focussed and harsh to my ear? Or the carbon fibre neck block? Or any of a dozen other things? 

thomasross20

Furch is a good example as I hear it there. I hear it on all Larrivee gloss Vs "satin" (Matt Larrivee himself admitted in interview the gloss finish gives a different sound) and Dana Bourgeois too:

https://www.guitarrepairsuk.com/finish.htm#:~:text=In general, the thicker the,a gloss coating sound awful.

As you say, many different types of finish and the thickness matters. Everything matters. As a general observation across a few brands now (also exact same model, construction and woods - like my OM03 and OM05), to my ears, satin notes sound a touch thinner when initially hit but you get a more open reverb sound, gloss notes initially hit sound fuller but less of the reverb. If only they could bottle it all into one  

You are invited to my Larrivee showroom if ever in Scotland to test it lol

Tannin

^ I will look forward to it!

thomasross20

Me, too!  

Btw I'd heard this before but the top's grain spacing can have an effect (lol). I've read wider gives a touch more bass. Just before 16mins here they state wider also gives more "space" in the sound. Interesting!

Soupman

Gents, I thought the term 'nerdy' only applied to techy computer people..... 

ICBM

TimmyO said:

And yep the absolute priority is what it sounds like to me - to the point I was pondering the other day about guitars that have those side ports, but I think they are so uncommon that I'd be on a hiding to nothing trying to find some to try/compare

They’re very common.








You just buy an electro-acoustic with a great big ugly plastic preamp box there, and take it out…  

(It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s how the idea started!)

More seriously, that’s probably not ideal since most of those aren’t going to be great guitars acoustically either. But yes, if the sound for you the player is the priority, it’s definitely something to consider looking for.

Tannin

ICBM said:

You just buy an electro-acoustic with a great big ugly plastic preamp box there, and take it out…  

More seriously, that’s probably not ideal since most of those aren’t going to be great guitars acoustically either. 

Oh dear, just when you were making sense you come out with palpable nonsense. ^^^

There are oodles of different truly great guitars made with a pickup as standard equipment. Taylor, Maton, Furch, Cole Clark, and Takamine (just to name the first five to come to mind) all have pickups as standard equipment, and if you can't find more than a few truly great guitars in the range of any one of those makers just mentioned, you are just not looking. 

(You can also buy examples of each without pickup, but mostly only to special order, or the cheap ones at the very bottom of their ranges.)

thomasross20

I'm looking forward to seeing what timmyo eventually gets here - love the guitar shop visit summaries!

Tannin

thomasross20 said:

I'm looking forward to seeing what timmyo eventually gets here - love the guitar shop visit summaries!

Yes. Next best thing to being there.

guitarjack66

ICBM said:

TimmyO said:

And yep the absolute priority is what it sounds like to me - to the point I was pondering the other day about guitars that have those side ports, but I think they are so uncommon that I'd be on a hiding to nothing trying to find some to try/compare

They’re very common.








You just buy an electro-acoustic with a great big ugly plastic preamp box there, and take it out…  

(It wouldn’t surprise me if that’s how the idea started!)

More seriously, that’s probably not ideal since most of those aren’t going to be great guitars acoustically either. But yes, if the sound for you the player is the priority, it’s definitely something to consider looking for.

I dont think ditching an acoustic fitted with a pick up discounts you from getting a good guitar. Currently none of my acoustics have pick ups but my previous ones that did were just as good as those that havent. You do seem to pay more for the pick up versions but I dont think avoiding them gives any guarantees one way or another. At least in the budget to mid range market.

tomjax

@bertie I've had the same ongoing issues trying to reach Atkin guitars. Gave up in the end. I think you might get more traction by going through one of their dealers.

Shame they can't seem to manage email or phone interactions.