Acoustic ingredients for a particular sound?

bertie

tomjax said:

@bertie I've had the same ongoing issues trying to reach Atkin guitars. Gave up in the end. I think you might get more traction by going through one of their dealers.

Shame they can't seem to manage email or phone interactions.

yes mate -  an old school "mate" s son works for Project in Exeter,  I'll chase him up again  - TBH with all thats been going on "domestically"  I kind of took me foot off the gas and never chased him up.  

IsambardKentucky

TimmyO said:

Ok some more data gathered today after a trip to GG Epsom (we were down that way for Claire to go shopping for something and I snuck off for a bit) 

Confirmed: definitely don’t want a Dread however decent - too much if an armful and not responsive enough to fingers compared to the OM sized things (tried a couple of Dreads inc a used D28 that was very nice of its ilk)

Lowden O-something (spruce and Rosewood) - meh. Sounded a bit dead which surprised me - maybe it needs to be played in a bit to do ‘that thing’ they are known for. 

Lowden F-something (a 5k one) - not much better 

Martin OM28 Reimagined - decent but not earth shattering.

Martin SC13 or whatever it’s called - their oddly shaped one. - eek - not nice sounding in comparison to any of the others (but to be fair, less spendy)

Now the fun bit: Atkin (oooooh) 

Frustratingly the Rosewood ones were leftys but the 2 mahogany ones (a Spruce/Mahogany Essential OM and a all Mahogany 000 Dust Bowl 14) were head, shoulders, and large part of torso above everything else. 

I really want to try a Rosewood one now to compare. 

The dustbowl has a very V neck - I didn't play it long enough to.be confident I'd get on with it but it didn't pose an immediate problem. The 45mm but was also very nice for fingerstyle.

The Essential didn't sound quite as standout but the neck was more 'normal' 

If liked the Dustbowl, def worth finding/trying a few more. I’ve played quite a few of the Dustbowl 000’s and not all of them have the same caricature v neck. Played one at GG in Camden that had a lovely softer V which was a lot less exaggerated and a surprise to the others i’d tried prior.

TimmyO

That's interesting. Thing is though I've already got an all Mahogany 00 - it's my only acoustic now (which is maybe while it appealed so much right off the bat) and I'd like something different to it. 

The learning point for me was how much Atkin > Martin  (although I think I got very lucky with my 00-17S - it's not going anywhere) 

thomasross20

The Martin Custom Shop is still comparable imo but is also twice the price.

ICBM

I’ve only ever played one Atkin, but it was a total dog. Unless further experience shows otherwise I’d take a Martin over one any day.

stickyfiddle

I agree with the Yay Atkin messages. My 47 is incredible. Not really a strummer but phenomenal at everything else. 

@Bertie have you called them? I had a good conversation with Alister just before xmas about a possible custom order. Straight through at first attempt. 

bertie

stickyfiddle said:

 

@Bertie have you called them? I had a good conversation with Alister just before xmas about a possible custom order. Straight through at first attempt. 

no mate, just emails  -  TBH  Im quite a phone-o-phobe at heart  -  bloody hate it,  but you're right, I should speak to them direct.   I guess its also Im not sure if I was "that serious" before  -  I need a boot up the arse to get things sold and progress something.

stickyfiddle

bertie said:

stickyfiddle said:

 

@Bertie have you called them? I had a good conversation with Alister just before xmas about a possible custom order. Straight through at first attempt. 

no mate, just emails  -  TBH  Im quite a phone-o-phobe at heart  -  bloody hate it,  but you're right, I should speak to them direct.   I guess its also Im not sure if I was "that serious" before  -  I need a boot up the arse to get things sold and progress something.

I'm the same - I sent a couple of emails then manned up and followed up by phone. Great chat tbh and I'm 90% there on committing to a custom J45-alike in black... 

Ricjo

I have an Atkin (the D37 currently on sale in the Classifieds) and a number of Martins (from Standard series to Custom Shop and so on). I have also played a lot of other Atkins over the last two years and my conclusion is that for a comparable Martin, it's about the bracing: any Golden Era or Authentic braced Martin is at least equivalent and - many times - better than an Atkin. But the Atkin blows the Martin Standard series out of the water.

So, even if you have a Custom shop Martin, but 'only' with standard bracing, your equivalent Atkin will (most likely) be better. However, a Martin Custom shop with Golden Era bracing or Authentic bracing is on a different level to the standard braced Martin - night and day.

And I should say'different' as opposed to 'better', given sound is all subjective, really.

bertie

Ricjo said:

  However, a Martin Custom shop with Golden Era bracing or Authentic bracing is on a different level to the standard braced Martin - night and day.

 

and the cost difference ?  (genuine question)

Ricjo

Big, unfortunately. But I’ve learnt the hard way that’s it’s worth saving up and biting the bullet, because you’ll most likely end up there anyway. 

The cost of a mintish used will be equivalent to a new Standard series for a Golden Era braced. And more so for an Authentic braced. But it’s worth it and used is the way to do it. 

And if you are able to get a used one from a large run of customs made for UK retailers, say (North Street edition, for example, made for GG, Peach, Andertons and Coda), where the unit price is lower than one-off customs, then even better.

A used player grade of these Golden Era braced guitars can be had for under the cost of a new Standard series. But not many come around to the market.

All these typically have the added benefit (hugely important for me, personally) of coming with Adi tops too. But that’s not for everyone’s liking. And I’ve played fantastic Sitka topped golden era braced Martins also.

thomasross20

I find the aged sitka tops can be as good, warmer. Adi is great especially on newer instruments as brings out the harmonics earlier, but is, to my ears, a brighter tonewood. I've tried two custom shops now against Larrivee's at the same time and preferred Larrivee - £2-3k vs £5-6k.

Soupman

I agree with Thomas, it's all about how the guitar sounds to you - your technique, your ears, your tonal preferences.
Whether head stock names help to narrow consistency is debatable.

Ricjo

True. As I said before, nothing should be labelled as better, but rather as different. Nothing more.

I think the only objective element here is how the headstock can influence how much a guitar will hold its value or not. And in that camp, Martin reigns over all other acoustics. But even that can be a mute point, should one not be looking to ever sell on their guitar.

TimmyO

I had a D28 Authentic (the '37 model) - when I went shopping that day it was without doubt the best Dread by some margin - even noticeably better (to me) than the other D28 Authentic they had in.

I had to sell it when I wasn't working after my Op and took a beating on it money-wise which was a shame but couldn't be avoided. I'm not able to spend that sort of money these days. And in any case, I think I'm over Dreadnaughts. 

Tannin

Ricjo said:

I think the only objective element here is how the headstock can influence how much a guitar will hold its value or not. And in that camp, Martin reigns over all other acoustics.

Sure. But you pay so much more for a Martin (of any given quality and standard) that this genuine objective advantage is swamped by the equally genuine objective disadvantage of paying 50% overs for it in the first place. 

On tops, I generally prefer Sitka to Red Spruce (aka "Adi"). I have played the odd Red Spruce guitar that I really liked (a  Martin CEO-7 and a particular Brook both come to mind) but in general I find it too abrupt and demanding. I got rid of my own Red Spruce guitar (a Guild) in the end and the new one on the way to replace it is European Spruce and walnut, which I expect I'll enjoy more consistently. 

JCA2550

If you can lay hands on one, try a 00 sized mahogany top model.

guitarjack66

Its a paradox really. It probably justifies a significant outlay if you are a paid gigging or recording musician yet most tend to use 'lesser' versions of those better instruments so as to avoid expensive accidents and repairs. Strange one really.

TimmyO

JCA2550 said:

If you can lay hands on one, try a 00 sized mahogany top model.

I have one - a 00-17S - I really like it. 

TimmyO

Ooh - we have developments - today I played 4 Atkins, a Martin OM-21 and an Australian handmade thing. 

More details when I’m home later.