Acoustic ingredients for a particular sound?

thomasross20

OM21 decent value compared to OM28. I prefer the new Guatemalan rosewood custom shops, think it's a big improvement on EIR. Look forward to your coming review ☺️

ICBM

The OM-21 I had is the best-sounding non-Dreadnought guitar I've owned, and in the top two or three I've ever played. Unfortunately I couldn't get on with the wide neck and string spacing.

thomasross20

1 3/4" ? 

It has a distinctly different tone to the OM28, both were good. I can't say enough good about the Guatemalan rosewood. 

Probably my favourite guitar right now is my moon spruce & Bhilwara. Moon spruce is not some fancy nonsense - this top wood has something magical going on. And the soft Bhilwara rosewood has mahogany's thrum/growl, EIR's bass (in fact maybe even deeper without being muddy) and overtones with no lack of mids or metallic sound, and is "woody" - it's actually phenomenal beyond belief. I really like the 'in between" woods and this one with the moon top is absolutely stunning in tone. 

TimmyO

Today I played in this order:

Fenech VT Auditorium (Australian handmade apparently)  (Spruce, some sort of very light coloured rosewood)

Taylor Jewel Kilcher signature model (used) - no I’ve not heard of them before either (Spruce, Satinwood)

Atkin 000 Dustbowl 14 - all mahogany

Atkin 000 37 Spruce and Rosewood (I think RW)

Martin OM21 (Spruce, Rosewood)

Atkin OM37 (Spruce, Rosewood)

Atkin ASJ (Spruce I think, Maple)

.

TimmyO

Grr I’m getting ‘encouraged’ to go get ready to go to a family birthday thing so can’t thumb-type more now.

Spolier - the final 3 were best/best suited to me - will do a badly worded description of how I found them all later 

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

1 3/4" ?

Yes, and classical-type string spacing at the bridge too. I sold mine to a friend who is a proper classical guitarist, it suits her perfectly.

thomasross20

Interesting, I prefer slightly wider but too wide is an issue, which Lowden usually is to me. Look forward to hearing more about timmyo's trip ! 

TimmyO

Righty ho - let the vague-sound-describing commence:

Fenech VT Auditorium (Australian handmade apparently)  (Spruce, some sort of very light coloured rosewood)

This looked really nice - there were a handful of this brand there and all heavily discounted from a pretty steep price. It seemed wonderfully made and played brilliantly. It was just too much of a characteristically small-bodied sound for what I’m after (although it didn’t *look* as small as say a 00) 

Taylor Jewel Kilcher signature model (used) - no I’ve not heard of them before either (Spruce, Satinwood)

This was used, a run of 1000 from about 20 (!) years ago. It played brilliantly, really articulate and open sounding but lacking in low end for something of the size I thought. Even with a pick the low strings didn’t want to give up much heft at all - don’t know if that’s a Taylor build thing or a Satinwood thing. If you like a bright guitar, it’d be fab (this one was pretty well used - a fair bit of apparent wear)


Atkin 000 Dustbowl 14 - all mahogany

This was as I recalled from the one I played elsewhere - a prominently V neck that oddly I forgot about pretty quickly - didn’t present any problems or distractions. Really responsive - light fingerpicking felt responsive and even and moderate plectrum the same. I had to remind myself this was an attractive sound because it was familiar - my 00 is all mahogany and is similarly responsive but this sounded fuller and better balanced (as you’d expect from a 000). Just felt really nice. In the past I’ve found myself preferring OM over 000 and the first hint that this was still the case was when I tuned to double drop D - a lot of the zing went away - even when capo’d up. 

Atkin 000 37 Spruce and Rosewood 

This started dialling me in to the Rosewood sound - very enjoyable, fuller sound but not stiff like sometimes I feel with Spruce/Rosewood . Again the drop tuning sounded much less rich (I was listening for that this time so may have been self fulfilling) so I asked for something OM scale and got presented with…


Martin OM21 (Spruce, Rosewood)

This was ace - I’d been going back and forth between various pairs of the others up to this point and comparing this and that but this was the first time I forgot that and realised I was just ‘playing’. It sounded a bit more reserved in the top end than the Atkins 000 but was beautifully balanced - it’s objectively a really good guitar. If that was the last guitar I’d played and I had cash in my pocket (neither of which were true) it’d be a no-regret purchase I suspect. 

Atkin OM37 (Spruce, Rosewood)

But then, this. A different voice of OM. More of everything. If you’ve heard one of those aural exciters on a recording, like that compared to the OM21. Highs went higher. Lows went lower. String separation more pronounced. Louder from the playing position. More zingy, in a nice way. Neck profile and spacing different but both OMs were great to play. Going back and forth between them confirmed that comparison but oddly it didn’t make the 21 seem ‘worse’ - just different. I did wonder if the 21 was just newer (and the Atkin has the whole torrefied thing so maybe is just more opened up from the get go)


Atkin ASJ (Spruce I think, Maple)

Curveball time - I asked if there was anything else I should try given what I liked and this one was brought over. My first thought was that I wasn’t taken with the look - I loved the black top but the fretboard was a really pale, almost washed out rosewood that looked a bit naff (to me) particularly against the black top, and the double diamond inlays jarred a bit at first (but grew on me). Playing it though was a great experience - completely different voice to the OMs and it took my ear a minute or 2 to dial in to it but once it did I really liked it. Smidge more of a fundamental in the low strings (felt and heard - not felt like you feel
a Dread but enough) and a different character in the mids - I’m not even going to try and describe it but ‘different’ to the OM. Going back and forth between the ASJ and OM (either) took a minute for you to dial
back in to the balance of sound you were hearing and then at that point they are just fantastic sounds. 

I’ve certainly confirmed to myself that an OM-ish thing is what I want and that the ASJ is close enough to that ballpark to for that bill too (I believe it’s a J185 ish size?) . I also confirmed that mahogany grabs my ear but that’s familiarity talking - I do indeed want something more wider-range sounding for this one. 

Those last 3 are all fab guitars - for my ears and fingers anyway. 

stickyfiddle

Sounds like you had a good day!  I haven't played an ASJ but your description sounds like how I would expect it to end up. \

Not sure what that guitar has but Atkin use Pao Ferro a lot for fretboards and bridges, which is a little lighter than a lot of rosewood. They describe it as Santos Rosewood, iirc. 

Tannin

(Written prior to your long post above, which I will enjoy reading shortly @TimmyO.)

On a matter of detail, the Fenech is one of their entry-level models. They sell for between $2700 and $3000 here in Oz (£1420 to £1580). (Remember that in the UK you have twice as much VAT so prices don't match up.) Fenech is a small manufacturer not established very long. I guess that they have maybe about four staff. I don't know how much automation is involved in their workshop. Fenechs are reasonably widely distributed here in Oz but I haven't had the opportunity to play one yet. 

So-called "New Guinea Rosewood" is not a rosewood at all, it's a type of padauk. The best common name to use for it is probably Narra. It is a medium-weight hardwood in the same general class as the walnuts, maples, most of the oaks, lighter acacias like Blackwood and Koa, and Sapele - i.e., lighter and much softer than rosewood, heavier and harder than mahogany and most of the mahogany-like timbers.

* The Wikipedia entry for it is a giggle - according to that, Narra is variously known as "placename padauk", "placename rosewood", "placename mahogany", and "placename redwood". What was wrong with "placename spruce"?

TimmyO

Tannin said:

(Written prior to your long post above, which I will enjoy reading shortly @TimmyO.)

On a matter of detail, the Fenech is one of their entry-level models. They sell for between $2700 and $3000 here in Oz (£1420 to £1580). (Remember that in the UK you have twice as much VAT so prices don't match up.) Fenech is a small manufacturer not established very long. I guess that they have maybe about four staff. I don't know how much automation is involved in their workshop. Fenechs are reasonably widely distributed here in Oz but I haven't had the opportunity to play one yet. 

So-called "New Guinea Rosewood" is not a rosewood at all, it's a type of padauk. The best common name to use for it is probably Narra. It is a medium-weight hardwood in the same general class as the walnuts, maples, most of the oaks, lighter acacias like Blackwood and Koa, and Sapele - i.e., lighter and much softer than rosewood, heavier and harder than mahogany and most of the mahogany-like timbers.

* The Wikipedia entry for it is a giggle - according to that, Narra is variously known as "placename padauk", "placename rosewood", "placename mahogany", and "placename redwood". What was wrong with "placename spruce"?

Interesting re Fenech. It was discounted down to about that. 

thomasross20

Is it the longer scale length of the OM that is grabbing you? So with lower scale length you lose some richness when down tuning, got it.

So mahogany grabs your ear but you already have some hog. 

Jumbo's can sound incredibly rich. I prefer OM for the comfort. And tbh, for my ears - too much air push and I start to get a headache lol. But if you don't then could be a nice different model. 

I'm wanting a more rosewood steered sound next but unsure if OM (again...) or OO 12 fret 

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

(Written prior to your long post above, which I will enjoy reading shortly @TimmyO.)

On a matter of detail, the Fenech is one of their entry-level models. They sell for between $2700 and $3000 here in Oz (£1420 to £1580). (Remember that in the UK you have twice as much VAT so prices don't match up.) Fenech is a small manufacturer not established very long. I guess that they have maybe about four staff. I don't know how much automation is involved in their workshop. Fenechs are reasonably widely distributed here in Oz but I haven't had the opportunity to play one yet. 

So-called "New Guinea Rosewood" is not a rosewood at all, it's a type of padauk. The best common name to use for it is probably Narra. It is a medium-weight hardwood in the same general class as the walnuts, maples, most of the oaks, lighter acacias like Blackwood and Koa, and Sapele - i.e., lighter and much softer than rosewood, heavier and harder than mahogany and most of the mahogany-like timbers.

* The Wikipedia entry for it is a giggle - according to that, Narra is variously known as "placename padauk", "placename rosewood", "placename mahogany", and "placename redwood". What was wrong with "placename spruce"?

Any connection to Jeff Fenech the former Boxing World Champion do you know?

Tannin

No idea but one would hope not.

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

No idea but one would hope not.

Those fighters are often big pussycats in their own time! lol