EV batteries. Well this is interesting..yikes

equalsql

And more than a little scary.
At a minimum.. Don't keep your electric scooter in the house.

guyinlyon

There's a good reason why electric scooters and bikes aren't allowed on Underground trains and buses.

lustycourtier

guyinlyon said:

There's a good reason why electric scooters and bikes aren't allowed on Underground trains and buses.

because they take up loads of room?

Kittyfrisk

In the interests of balance, the majority of incidents involving e-scooters & e-bikes have been caused by using incorrectly specced unsafe chargers & cables, aftermarket batteries, unattended charging overnight, damaged batteries etc.

https://www.nfpa.org/downloadable-resources/safety-tip-sheets/lithium-ion-battery-safety-for-consumers-tip-sheet?l=0

Almost everyone here will have & use Li-on batteries every day in their homes & workplaces in mobile phones, iPads, Android tablets & laptops. How many of us have experienced fire or explosions?
Of course, one is too many   

p90fool

I have an e-bike, but for this very reason spent the extra grand or so on one with a proper Bosch system rather than some Chinese no-name crap. 

I could have had a claimed doubling in power and range, but that's not much consolation if your house burns down. 

FastEddie

The problem with EV's is that they have been rushed to market.
Also the fact that the batteries are made in China under rather dubious conditions does mean that safety levels of just not the same.
Yes, they have to pass certain levels BUT, on the whole they are not that safe.

The whole EV market is, rightly, falling on it's backside. They are a terrible idea and cause more damage than good. 

Petrol and diesel are perfectly good until the right replacement can be developed.

elstoof

guyinlyon said:

There's a good reason why electric scooters and bikes aren't allowed on Underground trains and buses.

Electric bicycles are allowed in the same way as regular bicycles, there are regulations in place for the sale and use of e-bikes. Electric scooters and unicycles are not allowed, as they are unregulated due to being technically illegal to use on public land

euan

FastEddie said:

The problem with EV's is that they have been rushed to market.
Also the fact that the batteries are made in China under rather dubious conditions does mean that safety levels of just not the same.
Yes, they have to pass certain levels BUT, on the whole they are not that safe.

Citation required

Danny1969

One of the largest Ebike and scooter battery supplier has now been banned from selling in the UK. 

It’s not the tech that’s the problem … we have all been using 18650 and similar cells in our laptops and drills for 2 decades or more. The problem comes from fake parts .. basically fakes cells pretending to be superior Samsung other high quality cells. Then the BMS is doctored as well so what on paper is a good product is actually a dangerous fake and liable, as packs are constructed in parallel and series to self discharge through its self and catch fire, 

roundthebend

Danny1969 said:

One of the largest Ebike and scooter battery supplier has now been banned from selling in the UK.  

who?

guitars4you

Kittyfrisk said:

In the interests of balance, the majority of incidents involving e-scooters & e-bikes have been caused by using incorrectly specced unsafe chargers & cables, aftermarket batteries, unattended charging overnight, damaged batteries etc.

https://www.nfpa.org/downloadable-resources/safety-tip-sheets/lithium-ion-battery-safety-for-consumers-tip-sheet?l=0

Almost everyone here will have & use Li-on batteries every day in their homes & workplaces in mobile phones, iPads, Android tablets & laptops. How many of us have experienced fire or explosions?
Of course, one is too many   

That is my understanding - Plus better to charge up directly to an appropriate 13 amp wall socket, as against a 4 way extension cable/plug - As the cable/ring main on the wall is a higher spec'd cable/wire -  Feel how warm some mains adaptors get whilst on charge

Danny1969

roundthebend said:

Danny1969 said:

One of the largest Ebike and scooter battery supplier has now been banned from selling in the UK.  

who?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/opss-takes-enforcement-action-over-dangerous-e-bike-battery

Reverend

Danny1969 said:

roundthebend said:

Danny1969 said:

One of the largest Ebike and scooter battery supplier has now been banned from selling in the UK.  

who?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/opss-takes-enforcement-action-over-dangerous-e-bike-battery

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=upp+battery&crid=14R8M220GLSHB&sprefix=upp+battery,aps,66&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_1_11

Danny1969

^

Yes still everywhere. To be honest it won't make any difference. They can just rebrand anyway. Amazon don't give a shit, neither do Ebay and Alibaba and Express could give less than a shit. 

Amazon list fake fuses. You can actually buy packs of automotive fuses where the 2 amp fuses  won't blow until 8 or so amps have been passing through them for a few seconds. It's like they used the same cheap metal for all the less than 10 amp fuses and then just them in all the coloured plastic housings . A part that's a critical safety device used to  prevent fires and cost less than 40p is faked !

ICBM

Yeah but regulations are a bad thing because it’s red tape which stifles innovation and stops entrepreneurs from making a fast buck.

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Yeah but regulations are a bad thing because it’s red tape which stifles innovation and stops entrepreneurs from making a fast buck.

At last, someone that gets it!
Step up the production line & find me another new expensive shiny thing to want.

crunchman

elstoof said:

guyinlyon said:

There's a good reason why electric scooters and bikes aren't allowed on Underground trains and buses.

Electric bicycles are allowed in the same way as regular bicycles, there are regulations in place for the sale and use of e-bikes. Electric scooters and unicycles are not allowed, as they are unregulated due to being technically illegal to use on public land

They have been banned on TFL rail because of the fire risk though, not because they are illegal to use on the road:

https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2021/december/tfl-announces-safety-ban-of-e-scooters-on-transport-network

Quoting from that:

Our primary concern is always for the safety of our customers and staff. We have been extremely worried by the recent incidents on our public transport services, which involved intense fires and considerable smoke and damage. We have worked with London Fire Brigade to determine how we should deal with these devices and, following that review, we have decided to ban them.

elstoof

Also quoting from that

 Whilst privately owned e-scooters remain illegal to use in public spaces, they are widely available for purchase. Private e-scooters and e-unicycles are currently unregulated, meaning they are not currently required to meet any minimum vehicle standards. TfL will keep these changes under review pending any future changes to legislation by the Government regarding e-scooters and e-unicycles, specifically around safety standards.

elstoof

As well as

The ban will include all e-scooters and e-unicycles, but does not include mobility scooters that are permitted on the network or foldable e-bikes. E-bikes are generally subject to better manufacturing standards and the batteries are usually positioned in a place where they are less likely to be damaged, and so are less of a fire risk. Non-foldable e-bikes will continue to be allowed on some parts of the network at certain times of the day.

crunchman

elstoof said:

As well as

The ban will include all e-scooters and e-unicycles, but does not include mobility scooters that are permitted on the network or foldable e-bikes. E-bikes are generally subject to better manufacturing standards and the batteries are usually positioned in a place where they are less likely to be damaged, and so are less of a fire risk. Non-foldable e-bikes will continue to be allowed on some parts of the network at certain times of the day.

The key bit is the bit I have bolded.  TFL have banned them because they are a fire risk.

You can buy thousands of unregulated things from places like Ali Baba.  TFL don't care if you buy them and bring them onto the network if they aren't going to cause safety issues.  These have been banned because they have a habit of catching on fire.

Yes better manufacturing and regulation will help, but lithium batteries store a lot of energy, and are a fire risk - expecially if they get damaged.  My brother-in-law is in the fire brigade.  They are getting a lot of callouts to lithium battery fires.

elstoof

They have a habit of catching fire because there is currently no way to buy an e-scooter that has a CE mark. If/when that changes they will review the policy