Poor cows

Offset

Penn said:

thumpingrug said:

As a 40 year + veggie and someone who abhours animal cruelty, this is one of the reasons that turned me off eating meat.

However, setting that aside, I can't help but wonder if it isn't cheaper to process the meat in the original country and transport it as the finished product rather than transport live animals.  Unless they are being transported to be cattle at the final destination.  

In either case, the death rate and ill health caused by this form of transport must impact the final product when it does eventually turn up.

Veggie since the 80s to. Can’t watch the video sorry. Animals should be treated with respect and care  

Yes, don't watch it.  I admit I was moved to tears.  It was utterly appalling.  I'm largely vegetarian these days too, and precisely because of barbarity like this.

And @crosstownvamp - you may wish to reflect on your post.  To conflate 'hatred of Muslims' with my disgust at animal welfare outrages like this is pretty shameful.  If you think halal slaughter is OK, then that's one for you and your conscience.

Kurtis

Offset said:

Penn said:

thumpingrug said:

As a 40 year + veggie and someone who abhours animal cruelty, this is one of the reasons that turned me off eating meat.

However, setting that aside, I can't help but wonder if it isn't cheaper to process the meat in the original country and transport it as the finished product rather than transport live animals.  Unless they are being transported to be cattle at the final destination.  

In either case, the death rate and ill health caused by this form of transport must impact the final product when it does eventually turn up.

Veggie since the 80s to. Can’t watch the video sorry. Animals should be treated with respect and care  

Yes, don't watch it.  I admit I was moved to tears.  It was utterly appalling.  I'm largely vegetarian these days too, and precisely because of barbarity like this.

And @crosstownvamp - you may wish to reflect on your post.  To conflate 'hatred of Muslims' with my disgust at animal welfare outrages like this is pretty shameful.  If you think halal slaughter is OK, then that's one for you and your conscience.

You'd make a good politician 

Offset

Kurtis said:

You'd make a good politician 

I'll take that as an insult :-)

jonnyburgo

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 

If it upsets you don't fucking eat it.

Tannin

thumpingrug said:

I can't help but wonder if it isn't cheaper to process the meat in the original country and transport it as the finished product rather than transport live animals.  Unless they are being transported to be cattle at the final destination.  

Of  course it is. The live export trade exists only because some people still have idiotic 7th Century religious rules they blindly follow.

bertie

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 
 

if that upsets you,  move

or mooooooove

Offset

Tannin said:

thumpingrug said:

I can't help but wonder if it isn't cheaper to process the meat in the original country and transport it as the finished product rather than transport live animals.  Unless they are being transported to be cattle at the final destination.  

Of  course it is. The live export trade exists only because some people still have idiotic 7th Century religious rules they blindly follow.

Exactly this.  And when it comes to animal welfare versus a(ny) worldwide superstition that belongs in the dark ages, it's no contest from where I sit.

crunchman

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 

If it upsets you don't fucking eat it.

I used to work in an abattoir in the summer holidays when I was a student.  It wasn't pleasant, but it was nothing like that video.  UK animal welfare is pretty good compared with most other places.

jonnyburgo

bertie said:

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 
 

if that upsets you,  move

or mooooooove

I'm guessing that you disagree on it being a cruel industry then Bertie. This debate always comes down to those that eat meat claiming that vegetarians or vegans are moral finger waggers. It's rare that someone will say "I know it's cruel but I don't give enough of a fuck to do anything about it" which is cognitive dissonance and we all have that.

bertie

jonnyburgo said:

I'm guessing that you disagree on it being a cruel industry then Bertie.

wrong guess  -  some parts more than others

Danny1969

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 

If it upsets you don't fucking eat it.

When I was in the my early twenties I was working for a contractor doing maintenance work on the weekends in an abattoir. Although it wasn't pleasant sweeping bits of animal off the hoist RSJ's in order to paint them the actually killing as I remember was fairly humane. They were led in single file to a point where they were shot in the brain which killed them instantly. They they got hoisted away. 
At the time I was still a meat eater and used to steal the best cuts of meat out the cooler. Oddly enough for me it was watching Clarkson's farm that changed something for me and I haven't eaten meat for a few years now and never will again. 

mo6020

jonnyburgo said:

bertie said:

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 
 

if that upsets you,  move

or mooooooove

I'm guessing that you disagree on it being a cruel industry then Bertie. This debate always comes down to those that eat meat claiming that vegetarians or vegans are moral finger waggers. It's rare that someone will say "I know it's cruel but I don't give enough of a fuck to do anything about it" which is cognitive dissonance and we all have that.

I know eating meat is cruel but I don't give enough of a fuck to do anything about it. We're also top of the food chain, so I'm not shedding any tears over here.

However, I do buy almost all my meat from regeneratively farmed, ethically reared farms (The Dorset Meat Company does a v. good delivery service, if you're interested), as there's really no point in making the animals lives a misery outside of when you put a bolt in their brain...

crosstownvamp

Re halal: the initial idea - when it was invented  1400 years ago - was to bless the animal as it said goodbye to the world and make sure it had a moderately painless death. That was the idea - reduce the suffering and be thankful for its life.

Now the fact it hasn't got upgraded needs looking at, but the comment stated as "Their destination tells you all you need to know." stinks of islamophobia.

I really don't know if halal dictates where an animal is slaughtered.

FWIW: I eat red meat and fowl about four times a month and don't believe in god.

robgilmo

We are not top of the food chain, a Croc would eat you all day long, and there is nothing "humane" about the way any nation kills animals, so suck it up boys, we are all (meat eaters) nasty animal abuse devotees , even none meat eaters unless you really go out of your way not to be. I am a meat eater and I won't ever think it's not cruel to eat animals in the ways that we do.

jasonbone75

robgilmo said:

We are not top of the food chain, a Croc would eat you all day long, and there is nothing "humane" about the way any nation kills animals, so suck it up boys, we are all (meat eaters) nasty animal abuse devotees , even none meat eaters unless you really go out of your way not to be. I am a meat eater and I won't ever think it's not cruel to eat animals in the ways that we do.

Our big fatty brains and use of weapons put us at the top of the food chain a few hundred thousand years ago. Until crocs and other predators are bullet proof and immune to spears that won't change and there is no need for it to change.

There is no cruelty in killing to eat. There is much cruelty in suffering. It's a huge distinction.

Offset

crosstownvamp said:

the comment stated as "Their destination tells you all you need to know." stinks of islamophobia.

Really.  What stinks is your loose logic and bias taking you from A to B.  The statement tells you these animals were held in appalling conditions whilst being transported to an appalling death in a country whose religion dictates that fate.  Yes, I'm criticising a religion which would condemn an animal in that way.  That is a very long way indeed from hating the adherents of that religion.  Are you telling me that certain tenets of someone's religion are above criticism?  That's a slippery slope.

Let me ask you this.  Do you believe legitimate criticism of Israel's government constitutes antisemitism?  Most rational people, including me, do not.  So assuming you don't either, how do you equate criticism of a facet of Islam with islamophobia?

mo6020

jasonbone75 said:

robgilmo said:

We are not top of the food chain, a Croc would eat you all day long, and there is nothing "humane" about the way any nation kills animals, so suck it up boys, we are all (meat eaters) nasty animal abuse devotees , even none meat eaters unless you really go out of your way not to be. I am a meat eater and I won't ever think it's not cruel to eat animals in the ways that we do.

Our big fatty brains and use of weapons put us at the top of the food chain a few hundred thousand years ago. Until crocs and other predators are bullet proof and immune to spears that won't change and there is no need for it to change.

There is no cruelty in killing to eat. There is much cruelty in suffering. It's a huge distinction.

Exactly.

PLOP

I won’t watch the video. It’ll stick in my head for months, maybe years, because some similar videos have. The worst thing, for me that militant vegans can do to persuade people is show them harrowing footage, because it’s a world no one wants to see, so it somehow makes it even easier to look the other way and pretend it doesn’t exist. 

I’m veggie these days, I have been for over a year now but it wasn’t a hard transition because I didn’t eat much meat anyway. I remember seeing some horrible footage on TV when I was a teenager that made me want to be veggie, but still living with parents, who bought and cooked the food, didn’t want to (although it’s really more of a “couldn’t”) entertain paying more money for a picky eater. So I ate less meat than everyone else, like Sunday dinners would just be veg etc, but if mince and dumplings was made then I’d eat that. 

Since moving out at uni, my meat consumption dropped pretty dramatically but it’s only been the last year or two tha I’ve been serious about it. Haven’t eaten meat at all since then except by accident once by picking a chicken spring roll instead of a veggie one by mistake! I do occasionally eat fish- probably less than once a month. 

The final straw for me was going to miller and carter for a steak meal. It struck me that the number of cows killed just to keep this one restaurant open for a day was mind boggling. Then to see people on other tables wasting half a steak or getting the biggest portion of whatever and eating the chips only. It made me feel sick and when my steak came out I had to force it down. I haven’t touched anything since. 

The longer it goes, the weirder the idea of eating meat seems to me. The only thing I miss is chorizo, I’m yet to find a good replacement. 

I’m not vegan, so I still eat eggs and cheese, but I have swapped my milk in the main to oat milk, not that I drank much milk anyway. Humans are top of the food chain, that’s undeniable. But humans also have surpassed the need for cruelty like this. We understand suffering in a way no other animal can, and yet we choose to let it continue. We have the means for alternative proteins, and I believe we could have had lab grown real meat decades ago if there was a real desire to fund the research. 

DefaultM

If you go out with a spear, track, kill and eat an animal then good on you. What I don't understand is thinking it's inhumane to kill animals but eating them anyway. Why?
Barring some kind of medical issue it's very easy to not eat these things. You pick up the packet in the supermarket, and if it says it includes animal you just go "oh no I don't do that anymore" and put it back on the shelf.

viz

jonnyburgo said:

They are a commodity, same as they are here. Would anyone that eats meat enjoy a tour of a working UK abattoir?

Imagine working in one, what that does to your brain, killing terrified animals all day. We have cow fields at the back of us, when the calves are removed from the fields the cows moan like fuck for hours and hours you can hear it from our house. 

If Abattoirs had windows we’d all be vegetarian, as they say.