Poor cows

jasonbone75

That's terminology. Perhaps mine was badly chosen - those random changes would present no advantage in the situation I outlined so there would be no subsequent evolution in that direction. That's all. Nothing ground breaking or controversial.

Anyway, stopping this here - the thread was started about animal welfare and I'm complicit in some of the hijacking that derailed it.

JezWynd

Kurtis said:

Wonder what they're thinking/feeling. 

AHAB?

Kurtis

JezWynd said:

Kurtis said:

Wonder what they're thinking/feeling. 

AHAB?

CAPTAIN? 

Offset

JezWynd said:

Kurtis said:

Wonder what they're thinking/feeling. 

AHAB?

From Hebrew Aḥʾābh, probably “father's brother”

bertie

Kurtis said:

JezWynd said:

Kurtis said:

Wonder what they're thinking/feeling. 

AHAB?

CAPTAIN? 

Vera Lynn

( a bit tenuous that)

Kittyfrisk

Offset said:

JezWynd said:

Kurtis said:

Wonder what they're thinking/feeling. 

AHAB?

From Hebrew Aḥʾābh, probably “father's brother”

Sounds closely related to the epistemological root of "MOFO"...

Emp_Fab

This isn't about being vegetarian, vegan or carnivore.....   It's about treating the animals with some fucking respect.

If you like to eat meat - fine - I do - but it's your DUTY as a sentient being to respect the lives of the creatures you are eating.  That means doing what you can to make sure you only buy animal products from sources that treat the animals as kindly as possible.   If you choose to buy "Red Tractor" shit or don't even bother looking at anything other than the price then you're a c*nt.

If you can't afford free-range or ethically sourced meat, go veggie or get a better job.

Continuing to fund the horrific bottom end of the meat industry is immoral.

As for Islam and Halal slaughter, they can fuck right off.  Barbaric shit from the dark ages.  That's not Islamophobic - it's basic decency in the 21st century.

robgilmo

Emp_Fab said:

This isn't about being vegetarian, vegan or carnivore.....   It's about treating the animals with some fucking respect.

If you like to eat meat - fine - I do - but it's your DUTY as a sentient being to respect the lives of the creatures you are eating.  That means doing what you can to make sure you only buy animal products from sources that treat the animals as kindly as possible.   If you choose to buy "Red Tractor" shit or don't even bother looking at anything other than the price then you're a c*nt.

If you can't afford free-range or ethically sourced meat, go veggie or get a better job.

Continuing to fund the horrific bottom end of the meat industry is immoral.

As for Islam and Halal slaughter, they can fuck right off.  Barbaric shit from the dark ages.  That's not Islamophobic - it's basic decency in the 21st century.

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

distressed

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

I remember the disgust of western folks over photos of dogs cooking in China few years ago. How dare they, it's reserved for pigs, cows and lambs.

Emp_Fab

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

It's "even weirder" is it ?  Wanting the animals I eat to have been treated with compassion instead of being abused and mistreated ?

Are you sure you want to make that argument....  in public ?

Kurtis

I thought halal was supposed to be pretty humane? 

Stratavarious

Kurtis said:

I thought halal was supposed to be pretty humane? 

https://youtu.be/ZE2svQFH_q0?feature=shared 

I don’t think any methods get close to ‘humane’ - esp. when getting to industrial scale.   Re. OP. Accepting carcasses and frozen meat would be more humane than live transport for days in horrid conditions.   We can aspire for overall suffering to be minimal.   New Zealand banned live exports but they still export lamb.

I am pretty sure they were not being transported to Iraq to set up a gigantic petting zoo.

robgilmo

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

It's "even weirder" is it ?  Wanting the animals I eat to have been treated with compassion instead of being abused and mistreated ?

Are you sure you want to make that argument....  in public ?

Did you just slap me on the face with a glove? 
There is nothing wrong with 'wanting htem to be treated well' however 'but it's your DUTY as a sentient being to respect the lives of the creatures you are eating' , I realise its down to wording, if you are eating an animal you arnt reaspecting its life, its dead and was killed for you to eat, its an oxymoron..

jonnyburgo

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

It's "even weirder" is it ?  Wanting the animals I eat to have been treated with compassion instead of being abused and mistreated ?

Are you sure you want to make that argument....  in public ?

Yeah because next time an animal loving pisshead goes for a kebab or a burger or a pizza or a curry is going to say "excuse me my good man, is this meat ethically sourced, organic and killed in the kindest possible manner? What, you don't know? Then I shall take my business elsewhere, I bid thee farewell"

viz

jonnyburgo said:

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

It's "even weirder" is it ?  Wanting the animals I eat to have been treated with compassion instead of being abused and mistreated ?

Are you sure you want to make that argument....  in public ?

Yeah because next time an animal loving pisshead goes for a kebab or a burger or a pizza or a curry is going to say "excuse me my good man, is this meat ethically sourced, organic and killed in the kindest possible manner? What, you don't know? Then I shall take my business elsewhere, I bid thee farewell"

I did lol at this but there’s a serious point - animal lovers don’t tend to eat burgers and kebabs. 

I also agree with Emp. Meat eaters should want humane living conditions and humane dying conditions as much as vegans do. I don’t see a fallacy between wanting animals to live well and have a terror-free death, and eating meat. Ok it’s harder to do than just eating plants, but it’s not impossible and there’s no logical fallacy. 

robgilmo

viz said:

jonnyburgo said:

Emp_Fab said:

robgilmo said:

How can you respect the lives of animals that you kill and eat? Thats not respect, in a way thats even weirder than treating them like shit.  ''who's a good little sheep, oooh fluffy little lamb, im gonna cuddle you, shoot you in the head then skin you and eat you, coochy coochy coo''.

It's "even weirder" is it ?  Wanting the animals I eat to have been treated with compassion instead of being abused and mistreated ?

Are you sure you want to make that argument....  in public ?

Yeah because next time an animal loving pisshead goes for a kebab or a burger or a pizza or a curry is going to say "excuse me my good man, is this meat ethically sourced, organic and killed in the kindest possible manner? What, you don't know? Then I shall take my business elsewhere, I bid thee farewell"

I did lol at this but there’s a serious point - animal lovers don’t tend to eat burgers and kebabs. 

I also agree with Emp. Meat eaters should want humane living conditions and humane dying conditions as much as vegans. I don’t see a fallacy between wanting animals to live well and have a terror-free death, and eating meat. Ok it’s harder to do than just eating plants, but it’s not impossible and there’s no logical fallacy. 

I am going to throw this out there, if you are an animal lover you wont want to eat them, if you state you love animals and want them to have good lives and a 'terror free' death before you eat them, its a shedding of guilt and a normalisation of our treatment to animals.
Sure we can give them the best lives we can, its not the best lives they could have, the best lives they could have isnt one in which they get eaten.
When they are loading into a truck perhaps being chased by a dog, driven to a factory, put on a line to march to their deaths, I personally dont think that is terror free.

We farm and eat animals, as a result they suffer, all we can do is lessen their suffering, we cant eliminate it.


edit- I cant spell.

viz

^ agreed, but it’s not totally black and white. There’s got to be something between vegan and sadistic animal hater. But I do agree to your point about the turning of a blind eye. Which we’re all guilty of in many aspects of modern life.

FastEddie

robgilmo said:

FastEddie said:

Vegans, meat eaters , it matters not, some people will eat processed foods and some dont, the above would suggest vegans substitute processed food for meat, its simply not the case, I would hazard a guess that meat eaters eat just as much, if not more processed foods. I mean, how else are you going to get a burger made from lips and arseholes to taste nice?

Have you seen the 'plant based' food options in Waitrose? Like meat based products, they are industrial waste.  Locally sourced meat, fresh veg, fresh fruit, dairy, cream, 

There is a chap were we live he never is without his "Vegan runner" top. Looks like catweazel. Hilarious stereotype.

I've no problem with a vegan, just don't expect everyone else to follow. Worcester council and lots of Uni's ban meat at their eateries. That is the problem.

Kurtis

Stratavarious said:

Kurtis said:

I thought halal was supposed to be pretty humane? 

https://youtu.be/ZE2svQFH_q0?feature=shared 

I don’t think any methods get close to ‘humane’ - esp. when getting to industrial scale.   Re. OP. Accepting carcasses and frozen meat would be more humane than live transport for days in horrid conditions.   We can aspire for overall suffering to be minimal.   New Zealand banned live exports but they still export lamb.

I am pretty sure they were not being transported to Iraq to set up a gigantic petting zoo.

Oh, I agree none of it is very "humane".

I was reading that quite often, in the west, the stun fails so they go through awake, which doesn't sound so good either. 

Kurtis

What is AHAB? The band?