Poor cows

Shrews

Kurtis said:

Stratavarious said:

Kurtis said:

I thought halal was supposed to be pretty humane? 

https://youtu.be/ZE2svQFH_q0?feature=shared 

I don’t think any methods get close to ‘humane’ - esp. when getting to industrial scale.   Re. OP. Accepting carcasses and frozen meat would be more humane than live transport for days in horrid conditions.   We can aspire for overall suffering to be minimal.   New Zealand banned live exports but they still export lamb.

I am pretty sure they were not being transported to Iraq to set up a gigantic petting zoo.

Oh, I agree none of it is very "humane".

I was reading that quite often, in the west, the stun fails so they go through awake, which doesn't sound so good either. 

No, not my understanding. The gun (captive bolt pistol) hardly ever fails if it's well maintained/cleaned. The problem of inaccurate stunning arises through inaccurate positioning of the pistol to the head, not easy unless the head is restrained 'locked mechanically' in position. Much of that comes down to the skill and experience of the person doing the stunning. But nowadays most factories will have a mechanical restraint in place. 

Even if the first shot fails (rare) the animal is still stunned, it may have dropped to the floor and still be kicking or 'paddling' instead of going rigid, when another shot is applied. I never heard of a single case where the animal was 'awake' before being stuck (cut). Just not in anyone's interest and highly dangerous. Basically the animal is enclosed, head locked, shot, falls to knees and the gate opens to which the animal rolls out. It is then shackled to leg, lifted mechanically, to which the throat is cut. This all happens at a rate of about one every 2-3 minutes, or 20-30 per hour.

If that animal is not stunned when that gate is opened the life of the slaughterman doing the sticking is immediately at risk as would be everyone else in the room if the animal got loose (only once in 9 years work did I ever hear of this happening). Basically the stunning staff do not ever open the gate unless they are sure the animal is stunned. This would be extremely bad practice and no doubt requiring a report to be made by the vet onsite. Major retailers would not be happy with that!

More info here: https://www.hsa.org.uk/downloads/publications/captive-bolt-stunning-of-livestock-updated-logo-2016.pdf

Kurtis

Shrews said:

Kurtis said:

Stratavarious said:

Kurtis said:

I thought halal was supposed to be pretty humane? 

https://youtu.be/ZE2svQFH_q0?feature=shared 

I don’t think any methods get close to ‘humane’ - esp. when getting to industrial scale.   Re. OP. Accepting carcasses and frozen meat would be more humane than live transport for days in horrid conditions.   We can aspire for overall suffering to be minimal.   New Zealand banned live exports but they still export lamb.

I am pretty sure they were not being transported to Iraq to set up a gigantic petting zoo.

Oh, I agree none of it is very "humane".

I was reading that quite often, in the west, the stun fails so they go through awake, which doesn't sound so good either. 

No, not my understanding. The gun (captive bolt pistol) hardly ever fails if it's well maintained/cleaned. The problem of inaccurate stunning arises through inaccurate positioning of the pistol to the head, not easy unless the head is restrained 'locked mechanically' in position. Much of that comes down to the skill and experience of the person doing the stunning. But nowadays most factories will have a mechanical restraint in place. 

Even if the first shot fails (rare) the animal is still stunned, it may have dropped to the floor and still be kicking or 'paddling' instead of going rigid, when another shot is applied. I never heard of a single case where the animal was 'awake' before being stuck (cut). Just not in anyone's interest and highly dangerous. Basically the animal is enclosed, head locked, shot, falls to knees and the gate opens to which the animal rolls out. It is then shackled to leg, lifted mechanically, to which the throat is cut. This all happens at a rate of about one every 2-3 minutes, or 20-30 per hour.

If that animal is not stunned when that gate is opened the life of the slaughterman doing the sticking is immediately at risk as would be everyone else in the room if the animal got loose (only once in 9 years work did I ever hear of this happening). Basically the stunning staff do not ever open the gate unless they are sure the animal is stunned. This would be extremely bad practice and no doubt requiring a report to be made by the vet onsite. Major retailers would not be happy with that!

More info here: https://www.hsa.org.uk/downloads/publications/captive-bolt-stunning-of-livestock-updated-logo-2016.pdf

I'll take your word for it. Nasty business whatever. 

Shrews

Kurtis said:

I'll take your word for it. Nasty business whatever. 

Yep, trouble is it is all hidden from the public. See a nice cow in the field or a baby lamb and we don't see it as an animal being fattened up for slaughter. There is no mental connection between what's in that field and between the two slices of that burger bun.

The standards are extremely high from farm to fork, but the reality is it's still killing animals on a massive scale for our consumption. It beats chasing them around a field with a spear I suppose, but still, in the 21st century I think we should be moving away from it, or at the very least we should be all educated to understand the process to inform a decision on how and what we eat. 

The transport of the cattle in the OP is causing unnecessary suffering. Horrifying. At least in our farm to fork process, however barbaric in principle it may be, at least any unnecessary suffering is minimised. 

The most stressful time in the animals life is the journey from farm to abattoir. This is why a calming period takes place when they arrive at the abattoir (the lairage). I would love to say that this is about animal welfare, but the reality is that it's about money. Stressed animals cause tough meat and dark meat, which consumers don't buy. It's in the industry's financial interest to make sure the animal is stress free.

Would it happen if the opposite applied (stressed animals = better quality)? I would like to hope so in this century, but I doubt it. People still don't care enough. A tasty kebab or burger much more acceptable to our minds and stomachs than understanding the fattening up process. 

Kurtis

I don't really eat meat, don't buy it, but I wouldn't call myself vegetarian, because I'd eat it if it was put in front of me. Like if I was a guest. I'd rather eat it than throw it away. Especially if they'd slaughtered it for me. 

I've been around farms enough. 

Offset

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-2300-irish-cattle-set-sail-to-africa-as-more-sought/