International women's day: guitarist edition

Kurtis

I look great for 65*, and I rarely wear makeup at all.




*I'm 47.

Jetfire

I dunno mind, saying women are pretty with AND without make up is pretty egregious.... Esp in a thread celebrating women's achievements in a patriarchal world such as guitar.... 

Brio

"Whats wrong with bein' sexy?" - N Tufnel.

english_bob

Jetfire said:

I dunno mind, saying women are pretty with AND without make up is pretty egregious.... Esp in a thread celebrating women's achievements in a patriarchal world such as guitar.... 

It's what someone invariably says about Nuno Bettencourt when his name comes up in "list your favourites" threads like this...

Jetfire

english_bob said:

Jetfire said:

I dunno mind, saying women are pretty with AND without make up is pretty egregious.... Esp in a thread celebrating women's achievements in a patriarchal world such as guitar.... 

It's what someone invariably says about Nuno Bettencourt when his name comes up in "list your favourites" threads like this...

I dont really get what you're trying to say. If people want to wear make up or dress as they want to dress, that's their business.  

Opinions are like your butt; everyone has one and getting yours out in public usually ends badly.

digitalscream

Guys, this is exactly why the Eleven thread was deleted - it wasn't salvageable because the derail ruined it. Do you want this thread to go the same way?

Jfingers

Sorry for my ill judged comment folks.

jonnyburgo

digitalscream said:

Mattharrier said:

I wonder if the kind of theatrics that gets male guitarists noticed is something that females are less bothered by, and so they get noticed less? Maybe rock is just a bit too simplistic and childish for most of them so they get on with something more important

Erm...



On that subject, how has Jennifer Batten not been mentioned so far?

I took my daughter to see a Jacko tribute guy a few years ago and Jennifer came in to do a few numbers, she can still tear it up.

boogieman

ToneControl said:

So - people have shared many female guitarists names and videos on this thread, but most are quite recent.
Were there always lots around, but youtube and social media makes it easier now to get well-known, were labels disinterested in them before, or mostly-male bands didn't want to play with them, or are more women learning to play nowadays?

They’ve always been around. There were certainly plenty of female players when I played at folk nights back in the day, but my memory of mainstream female guitarists back in the 60s/ 70s were they nearly always played acoustics. There were plenty of those type of musician around… Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Linda Ronstatd, even good old Nana Mousskouri. Females toting electrics though? Still a bit of a novelty, barring the odd exception like Bonnie Raitt and Fanny, as already mentioned. I suppose what has changed is that women feel more empowered generally and are encouraged to think they can do anything they want: guitars are not just for boys. Social media has obviously made a big difference too. 

There’s a few more that I can think of that haven’t been mentioned, all excellent guitarists in their own right. Shawn Colvin, Samantha Fish, Susan Tedeschi. 

english_bob

Jetfire said:

english_bob said:

Jetfire said:

I dunno mind, saying women are pretty with AND without make up is pretty egregious.... Esp in a thread celebrating women's achievements in a patriarchal world such as guitar.... 

It's what someone invariably says about Nuno Bettencourt when his name comes up in "list your favourites" threads like this...

I dont really get what you're trying to say. If people want to wear make up or dress as they want to dress, that's their business.  

Opinions are like your butt; everyone has one and getting yours out in public usually ends badly.

What I meant was that I've seen more "looking great for his age" comments about Nuno on TFB than about any female guitarist. I had no deep philosophical point to make.

Litterick

boogieman said:

ToneControl said:

So - people have shared many female guitarists names and videos on this thread, but most are quite recent.
Were there always lots around, but youtube and social media makes it easier now to get well-known, were labels disinterested in them before, or mostly-male bands didn't want to play with them, or are more women learning to play nowadays?

They’ve always been around. There were certainly plenty of female players when I played at folk nights back in the day, but my memory of mainstream female guitarists back in the 60s/ 70s were they nearly always played acoustics. There were plenty of those type of musician around… Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Linda Ronstatd, even good old Nana Mousskouri. Females toting electrics though? Still a bit of a novelty, barring the odd exception like Bonnie Raitt and Fanny, as already mentioned. I suppose what has changed is that women feel more empowered generally and are encouraged to think they can do anything they want: guitars are not just for boys. Social media has obviously made a big difference too. 

There’s a few more that I can think of that haven’t been mentioned, all excellent guitarists in their own right. Shawn Colvin, Samantha Fish, Susan Tedeschi. 

boogieman said:

ToneControl said:

So - people have shared many female guitarists names and videos on this thread, but most are quite recent.
Were there always lots around, but youtube and social media makes it easier now to get well-known, were labels disinterested in them before, or mostly-male bands didn't want to play with them, or are more women learning to play nowadays?

They’ve always been around. There were certainly plenty of female players when I played at folk nights back in the day, but my memory of mainstream female guitarists back in the 60s/ 70s were they nearly always played acoustics. There were plenty of those type of musician around… Joan Baez, Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Linda Ronstatd, even good old Nana Mousskouri. Females toting electrics though? Still a bit of a novelty, barring the odd exception like Bonnie Raitt and Fanny, as already mentioned. I suppose what has changed is that women feel more empowered generally and are encouraged to think they can do anything they want: guitars are not just for boys. Social media has obviously made a big difference too. 

There’s a few more that I can think of that haven’t been mentioned, all excellent guitarists in their own right. Shawn Colvin, Samantha Fish, Susan Tedeschi. 

The music industry was patriarchal. The men kept the women down. What changed things was feminism colliding with punk. Women (Gaye Advert, Tina Weymouth and others) were at least allowed to play the bass in a band of men. Some women formed their own bands — The Slits, The Raincoats, Dolly Mixture and others. But still, rock remains a largely male business. Women are accepted if they dress up for the lads and look hot. Only at the edges are they able to be musicians who are equal to men.

(recommended reading: The Lost Women of Rock Music — Female Musicians of the Punk Era, by Helen Reddington: Taylor & Francis, 2007, 2016)

bacchanalian

I Love Mary Chapin Carpenter's playing and song writing.
One of the few positives of the lockdowns was Chapin's 'Songs from Home' on youtube. 

idiotwindow

digitalscream said:

Guys, this is exactly why the Eleven thread was deleted - it wasn't salvageable because the derail ruined it. Do you want this thread to go the same way?

Why couldn't you have just split off the "derail" element from the discussion about the magazine? I thought the latter derail shone an interesting (mostly negative) light on this forum and the closure and deletion of that thread has struck me as a bit cynical.

jasonbone75

idiotwindow said:

digitalscream said:

Guys, this is exactly why the Eleven thread was deleted - it wasn't salvageable because the derail ruined it. Do you want this thread to go the same way?

Why couldn't you have just split off the "derail" element from the discussion about the magazine? I thought the latter derail shone an interesting (mostly negative) light on this forum and the closure and deletion of that thread has struck me as a bit cynical.

Closure and deletion is the only way to avoid being seen to take a side.

Jetfire

It didn't shed a positive light on this forum, thats for certain. Yes, I get the logic of leaving a few wayward comments up for all to see who the bad guys are but effectively, it shows that the forum allows posts which are derogatory/offensive etc are allowed up until such time as the whole thread is deleted.  Casual viewers will see the negative comments and go "nah, not a place for mex and go. 

That's my view of it anyway 

digitalscream

idiotwindow said:

digitalscream said:

Guys, this is exactly why the Eleven thread was deleted - it wasn't salvageable because the derail ruined it. Do you want this thread to go the same way?

Why couldn't you have just split off the "derail" element from the discussion about the magazine? I thought the latter derail shone an interesting (mostly negative) light on this forum and the closure and deletion of that thread has struck me as a bit cynical.

Because a) it was the majority of the thread by that point, and there were many comments that were both on- and off-topic, and b) I actually spoke to the OP as well as the lady in question, and agreed how to proceed. The closure of the thread was based on needing time to deal with the problem without people making it worse, and the removal was requested as part of the way forward from there.

The point is that this forum doesn't exist in a vacuum, and there's a lot more to consider than just splitting threads because we don't like them.

And, incidentally, that question could quite easily have been asked by PM to avoid derailing this thread further. I'm using this as an opportunity to show how both sides of the shitty arguments over things like this are at fault for ruining positive threads, because just telling people doesn't seem to be enough.

EricTheWeary

bacchanalian said:

I Love Mary Chapin Carpenter's playing and song writing.
One of the few positives of the lockdowns was Chapin's 'Songs from Home' on youtube. 

I saw MCC live a couple of times years ago, have rather lost track of her since. But lovely voice, lovely songwriting and always guitar in hand. 

Litterick

Geneviève Paris