Ian Elson guitars (new UK brand)

octatonic

FelineGuitars said:

I have been doing this since 1987, working for others first, launching Feline in 1992 and going full time without a safety net in 1997, and to be fair I believe that "slow and steady wins the race", as you build up skills, loyalty and a good customer base and you develop the business skills and a sense of perspective.

How essential has repairing been to maintaining your business, Jonathan?

There are a few builders that don't do repairs, some of them did to begin with and dropped it, some never have.

FelineGuitars

octatonic said:

FelineGuitars said:

I have been doing this since 1987, working for others first, launching Feline in 1992 and going full time without a safety net in 1997, and to be fair I believe that "slow and steady wins the race", as you build up skills, loyalty and a good customer base and you develop the business skills and a sense of perspective.

How essential has repairing been to maintaining your business, Jonathan?

There are a few builders that don't do repairs, some of them did to begin with and dropped it, some never have.

Repairs are essential - still pays the rent and wages

Also many customers get to know us via repairs and set-ups and the quality of that work makes them enquire about custom builds.

Also what you learn from handling & fixing every make imaginable cannot be underestimated.

There are a lot of things on my guitars that are from lessons well learnt from deep knowledge of other guitars.

Good stuff we may have adopted and bad Stuff we avoid.

We are always looking at best practice and most player and technician friendly approaches.

Also we do more fret jobs and fret dresses & set-ups in a week than some builders do in a year.

That has to translate into getting the best fretwork we can on the guitars we build 

Experience and regular practise wins out EVERY time - it's true for players and it's true for guitar makers.

crunchman

There are so many good far Eastern and Mexican made guitars out there now, that I don't think the statement about lack of quality guitars at affordable prices is really true.  I've got a Fender Custom Shop Tele and a US 62 Reissue Strat, but I'd be perfectly happy to play out with my Mexican Strat - which was £250 less than the price of this guitar.

I don't want to come across as too negative, but I think the marketing needs to be worked on.

I'd also agree with others that overall it would be better at a slightly higher price point, with a nice finish.  If it was around £1100 then it would still be much, much cheaper than a Les Paul Standard, but there would probably be a reasonable margin in it.

Sync

At this price point you are competing with some very good new kit from big brands or like/as new second hand kit. Not to mention finance offered by many dealers making the dream off the shelf guitars totally affordable.

The value in a custom guitar is it's bespoke value and beauty.

raulduke

Wow... this thread... way to piss on someones chips eh

I think the guitar looks cool, and at least it's something different.

I also like the functional look/aesthetic of the guitars.

The shape reminds me a little of these:

Good luck with the venture!

FelineGuitars

Bolan used a Valeno once or twice

raulduke

And Keith Levene!

DrBob

FWIW I like the headstock design.

Although that does feel like a back handed compliment, akin to telling a woman she has nice hands...

But that said I do genuinely like the headstock

hobbio

I see a headstock as a much more important part of a guitar's over all aesthetic than that. I don't think that those of us who have complimented him on it mean it in a back handed way.

James Tyler makes some great guitars by all accounts, but that headstock is enough to prevent me from even trying one, let alone buying it.

octatonic

hobbio said:

I see a headstock as a much more important part of a guitar's over all aesthetic than that. I don't think that those of us who have complimented him on it mean it in a back handed way.

James Tyler makes some great guitars by all accounts, but that headstock is enough to prevent me from even trying one, let alone buying it.

Tyler does that on purpose- the whole idea started as an in-joke- he frequently says 'you either get it or you don't'.

It is a bit of a snub at guitar-orthodoxy.

His guitars are a high water mark in terms of playability imho.

hobbio

I don't get the headstock at all. That's enough for me to never even consider buy one, even though I've never heard anyone give his guitars anything but praise. I just couldn't live with it, and I'm not a fussy man!

octatonic

I can't speak for him of course but I gather that is kinda of the point to it.

He wanted a niche brand- he is already really busy with the company and alienating a percentage of the guitar buying public created part of that niche/appeal limit.

A lot of folks embrace it though and the 'in joke' element of it gets him customers, just because they want to be part of 'the in the know super secret guitar club'.

It is a fairly post-modern approach to building guitars- same with the burning water finish, the logo on the back of the headstock, the very, very obvious 'relic' job on the forearm rest.

It is one big in joke poking fun at guitar culture.

Personally I love it- it is clever and kinda dumb at the same time.

octatonic

This is the burning water & forearm rest thing:

hobbio

I understand that it's intentional, and it's definitely worked to alienate me! I do like that burning water body finish though, even if the forearm cut "relic" doesn't appeal. I bet if I played that guitar it'd be the best thing I've even played, but the headstock means that it can stay as an in joke between him and his customers as far as I'm concerned.

octatonic

hobbio said:

I understand that it's intentional, and it's definitely worked to alienate me! I do like that burning water body finish though, even if the forearm cut "relic" doesn't appeal. I bet if I played that guitar it'd be the best thing I've even played, but the headstock means that it can stay as an in joke between him and his customers as far as I'm concerned.

You hate it that much, eh?

I kinda want you to play one now.

Not enough to buy it for you, of course.

Paul_C

hobbio said:

I don't get the headstock at all. That's enough for me to never even consider buy one, even though I've never heard anyone give his guitars anything but praise. I just couldn't live with it, and I'm not a fussy man!

each to his own, I'd struggle to buy a PRS for similar reasons

frankus

octatonic said:

hobbio said:

I understand that it's intentional, and it's definitely worked to alienate me! I do like that burning water body finish though, even if the forearm cut "relic" doesn't appeal. I bet if I played that guitar it'd be the best thing I've even played, but the headstock means that it can stay as an in joke between him and his customers as far as I'm concerned.

You hate it that much, eh?

I kinda want you to play one now.

Not enough to buy it for you, of course.

I freakin love Tylers especially that finish I expect being a southpaw I shall maybe see one in my lifetime someday...

WezV

I made the decision not to pursue a career in guitar building a few years back because I wanted to start a family and needed more stability than it could offer.  

Also, the more commissions I took on the more Tele shaped guitars I ended up making.  As much as I enjoyed that I didn't want it to be my life.  

It was the right decision for me.  I am happier having guitar building as my escape, and being able to help out people with random projects when I have time, and I am happy making the occasional tele.

anyway - I won't criticise the design here, I don't dislike it.  I do think Octatonic makes some very good points about sustainable pricing.  I did those sums myself  and it contributed to my decision not to pursue it as a career.

I personally always worry about any builders website that shows less than 5 finished guitars.  (Although its not as bad as the ones that only show fancy designs and no finished instruments).   There are new builders appearing  (and disappearing) every day who have no real portfolio at all - just one or two admittedly nicely made instruments.  

I am the first to admit my website is terrible, it hasn't been updated in years - but it does at least show a lot of very different guitars I have built.  I have about 50 individual instruments on there right back to my first - there are another 15-20 I have not added yet.

Corvus

In a constructive spirit -

Organic growth is good. Doing the work/production is one thing, but the mechanics of running a business can be a right pain in the arse, let alone a business intended to grow very quickly. And expectations are a bastard to live up to.
I also think jumping on Kickstarter and the like puts people off and frankly can be seen as lazy at worst, or wildly optimistic.

Get a proper domain name and host the site somewhere - free or generic domains look M.Mouse.
Should be able to find a localish designer who can help with that for low cost.

Do a proper demo vid, less talk & more guitar. Record into a DAW and take separate video, then sync them.

The guitars pics are good quality but there needs to be more, arty detail ones and whatnot.

btw when I was solo I used to get stuff done with folks by trading work/skills, always worth keeping a beady eye out for opportunities there.

If t'were me I'd do a couple of different body shapes, and maybe different wood choices, it's simple achievable spread-betting regards what people might like, and looks more like the beginnings of a range.

Finally and sincerely, best of luck to you.

hobbio

octatonic said:

hobbio said:

I understand that it's intentional, and it's definitely worked to alienate me! I do like that burning water body finish though, even if the forearm cut "relic" doesn't appeal. I bet if I played that guitar it'd be the best thing I've even played, but the headstock means that it can stay as an in joke between him and his customers as far as I'm concerned.

You hate it that much, eh?

I kinda want you to play one now.

Not enough to buy it for you, of course.

Shame. If someone gave me one and it was great to play I'd reshape the headstock and live with the fact I could never sell it.