EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ICBM

Chalky said:

Sorry @ICBM but I'm old enough to remember precisely your same argument being used before. "The French will NEVER surrender the French Franc!" No way. Never happen.

But it did. Now tell me that's not a fact…

That's true. They accepted it on the basis that France would be essentially in control of the Euro, and they seem less happy that it turned out that they weren't. I don't think they would want to come out of it now, but it hasn't worked out quite how they expected.

But that's nothing compared to the idea of no longer *being French* and having to be part of a European superstate along with the Germans. And others, but mostly the Germans.

I agree with Emp up to a point as well - although I don't think we should join the Euro at the moment. The long-term future of it is not a certainty if Greece and possibly more countries have to leave it. On the other hand if the UK votes Leave and Scotland votes Remain and there's a second independence referendum, then I would certainly support Scotland joining the Euro and not the pound - as we would have to to rejoin the EU.

Sambostar

I'II vote in if we are allowed fully automatic machine guns and we can kill who we like with impunity.  Listen to myself.  If 'We' are allowed.  Fucking hell your lives are like being at primary school and you have to do what teach tells you.  Jesus Christ, what a pile of shite.

Dear EU/Prime Minister, is it OK if I fart now or will you kill me?

Pay your taxes and die like a good serf.

Fuck you.

Mkjackary

UK and the EU is like a shitty marriage.

If you are unhappy in a marriage (as most people are) you *should* get a divorce. Yes you will be taken or half, lose mates, don't get to see your kids, but eventually you will get back on your feet, you may even get visitation rights if you are lucky but chances are your wife and all previous ties will be fucked and you will have to start again.

The other option is to go to a marriage counselor and try and sort it out, committing and actually putting yourself 100% into the marriage.

Our choices now are stay in a shitty marriage where we are getting sodomised daily and our wife is doing us over.
Or get a divorce and lose out a for a few years possibly more, and then have no friends and lose out, but it could be better off in the long run.

In reality we need to either make a good go of it, put 100% in, the more integrated we get, the more say/influence we will have on the laws and such. Or leave, accept we will have a naff couple of years. But better a shit couple of years than a mediocre lifetime.

Rocker

Drew_fx said:

ICBM said:

Chalky said:

Do you accept the fact that successive French and German governments have restated their intention of closer union? It is what they sincerely want. And it is what they will achieve.

Please stop pretending that you can change their minds on this.

I accept it's what their governments have said, because they have. But it will never get past their populations. Can you honestly see the French and the Germans agreeing to change their national identities?

Oh aye, not like the Germans have ever agreed to fascist policies before!!

Steady on Drew, it is not as if the UK does not have blood on it's hands....

ICBM

Mkjackary said:

If you are unhappy in a marriage (as most people are) you *should* get a divorce.

I'm not sure which part of that I disagree most with...

Sambostar

Rocker said:

Drew_fx said:

ICBM said:

Chalky said:

Do you accept the fact that successive French and German governments have restated their intention of closer union? It is what they sincerely want. And it is what they will achieve.

Please stop pretending that you can change their minds on this.

I accept it's what their governments have said, because they have. But it will never get past their populations. Can you honestly see the French and the Germans agreeing to change their national identities?

Oh aye, not like the Germans have ever agreed to fascist policies before!!

Steady on Drew, it is not as if the UK does not have blood on it's hands....

And like that is my problem because I have a UK passport.  Like it's all our problem because we have an EU passport, like when the aliens invade it'd everybody's problem because we have a world passport.  You are being sold into slavery and you don't even know it,  steers up the slaughterhouse chute.  I'm voting out to protect what little self governance and diversity we can cling on to.

Emp_Fab

You know that if you vote IN, you have to house at least two illegal immigrants currently camping in Calais don't you ?

Brussels has said so, in EC2771882/19.

that may not be entirely accurate.

Mkjackary

ICBM said:

Mkjackary said:

If you are unhappy in a marriage (as most people are) you *should* get a divorce.

I'm not sure which part of that I disagree most with...

Trust me, as a 19 year old man-child who has never been engaged or married, I know my shit. :-B

Fretwired

Emp_Fab said:

You know that if you vote IN, you have to house at least two illegal immigrants currently camping in Calais don't you ?

Brussels has said so, in EC2771882/19.

I've forwarded this to Boris .. he says thanks as this is to become his new line of attack - can he have your address as he wants to give you a knighthood (when he becomes PM).

Drew_TNBD

Rocker said:

Drew_fx said:

ICBM said:

Chalky said:

Do you accept the fact that successive French and German governments have restated their intention of closer union? It is what they sincerely want. And it is what they will achieve.

Please stop pretending that you can change their minds on this.

I accept it's what their governments have said, because they have. But it will never get past their populations. Can you honestly see the French and the Germans agreeing to change their national identities?

Oh aye, not like the Germans have ever agreed to fascist policies before!!

Steady on Drew, it is not as if the UK does not have blood on it's hands....

There should be a logical fallacy called the 'elevation fallacy' - where people amp up and give more weight to a criticism than was intended or warranted.

Hey... it's not as if Ireland does not have blood on it's hands!!

GREAT GAME CHAMP!!

ToneControl

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

There's often an ounce of truth in many false arguments - it's what can make them seem believable.

Not sure it's a false argument - I've been to the EU Commission and Parliament a few times and know a few MEPs. The guys at the top - Junker and co - really don't like the UK as too much time gets wasted trying to appease us. I'm really surprised they didn't just offer us a trade deal to leave (they still might depending on how the vote goes). It's also not helped by Farage insulting them at every turn in debates.

If we vote to leave my guess is they will effectively create a new level of membership for us (trade and movement) and some of the weaker nations like Greece and Portugal and Denmark which, like the UK, is also Euro-sceptic. The remaining countries are closer aligned economically and could plough ahead with further political and economic integration.

excellent, I was assuming we'd be offered a deal if we vote out

mind you, I'm still not clear why free movement is a prerequisite for free trade

littlegreenman

ToneControl said:

Fretwired said:

ICBM said:

There's often an ounce of truth in many false arguments - it's what can make them seem believable.

Not sure it's a false argument - I've been to the EU Commission and Parliament a few times and know a few MEPs. The guys at the top - Junker and co - really don't like the UK as too much time gets wasted trying to appease us. I'm really surprised they didn't just offer us a trade deal to leave (they still might depending on how the vote goes). It's also not helped by Farage insulting them at every turn in debates.

If we vote to leave my guess is they will effectively create a new level of membership for us (trade and movement) and some of the weaker nations like Greece and Portugal and Denmark which, like the UK, is also Euro-sceptic. The remaining countries are closer aligned economically and could plough ahead with further political and economic integration.

excellent, I was assuming we'd be offered a deal if we vote out

mind you, I'm still not clear why free movement is a prerequisite for free trade

Confirmation bias at it's finest.

Drew_TNBD

Everyone - EVERYONE - has rational self-interest.

One of the main PRO-EU friends I have has a girlfriend with a very Eastern European name. As if that isn't the reason he's so pro-EU.

Nitefly

Nitefly said:

Well.

The die has been cast, and the wheel is in spin *

I've voted by post, and I've voted for... IN.

*Thanks, Bob.

And so has my wife... >:D<

Chalky

littlegreenman;1096761" said:

ToneControl said:



Fretwired said:



ICBM said:

There's often an ounce of truth in many false arguments - it's what can make them seem believable.












Not sure it's a false argument - I've been to the EU Commission and Parliament a few times and know a few MEPs. The guys at the top - Junker and co - really don't like the UK as too much time gets wasted trying to appease us. I'm really surprised they didn't just offer us a trade deal to leave (they still might depending on how the vote goes). It's also not helped by Farage insulting them at every turn in debates.



If we vote to leave my guess is they will effectively create a new level of membership for us (trade and movement) and some of the weaker nations like Greece and Portugal and Denmark which, like the UK, is also Euro-sceptic. The remaining countries are closer aligned economically and could plough ahead with further political and economic integration.










excellent, I was assuming we'd be offered a deal if we vote out

mind you, I'm still not clear why free movement is a prerequisite for free trade





Confirmation bias at it's finest.

Looks like you disagree that there will be a compromise trade deal if we vote out. What do you think will happen then?

eSully

eSully

And for balance ... (Brexit the movie, a swiss response)

ICBM

This is interesting…

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36450749

Firstly because Gove is repeating the bogus £350 million a week figure they've already been warned about, but more importantly because they're now only promising to spend £100 million of it on the NHS, rather than all the £350 million as they previously said. Where is the other £250 million going?

And even more importantly still, when the £350 million is proven to be a fiction and the true figure is much less - at least £100 million less, for example - will they simply explain away not being able to spend *any* more on the NHS?

Be very careful before you trust these people if they're willing to move the goalposts so dramatically even before the event.

Sambostar

Yes, but we will be able to vote them out in a few years time and if we don't like it we can revolt en masse.  We stand a better chance as a national population, than a few people against the combined armed forces of Europia.

Drew_TNBD

The conduct of all my 'Remain' friends on Facebook is really fucking pissing me off. They're such snide wankers, they really are.