The Disclose your Salary Thread

Snap

Emp - is that post at me? Cos I thought I'd explained clearly my opinion. Puzzled

Cabicular

Sporky said:

A gentleman does not reveal his salary, his tailor nor his sexual proclivities.

Though in my case the three are one and the same.

I wasn't aware of the tailor '69' ...?

joneve

Snap said:

Emp - is that post at me? Cos I thought I'd explained clearly my opinion. Puzzled

I believe it was directed at the thread author mate. 

Babones

Two bags of salt.

octatonic

Emp_Fab said:

It's not about ME knowing,  it's about your reluctance to disclose yourself! Ignoring the obvious hypocrisy for a moment,  you state that you are interested in the reasons behind people's reluctance (as am I)  yet then exhibit that same reluctance and don't explain  WHY  you feel that way.

When driving I cast a glance at a car accident to see what has happened but I don't think I'd like to be in one.
You can't expect people to be rigorously rational in all circumstances.

I've found this topic interesting because I didn't really believe that many people would disclose this information.
In particular there were a few people who I thought would be extremely unlikely to disclose that did.
It doesn't bother me, but it was a surprise.

This doesn't mean that I would then disclose this information.
IMHO it is personal information and I can see no real reason to give it.
That doesn't preclude me from being interested in the thread or by who does disclose.

thomasross20

Can we all just chat about female bodybuilders?

Myranda

I think though we should as a nation get over the taboo of talking about salary... 

Can't shame a CEO for earning a Billion per cent higher salary than Bob the welder in his company is we don't know what either earns. 

If it's public and open then we might see that the same job is paid better everywhere else and ask for fairer pay or leave... Companies would be more willing to pay what you're worth if they risk losing you... Of course if you're better paid than others doing your job you get to be smug about it (I can still recall how smug my father was telling me his dad was at one time the 3rd best paid BA pilot... And wondering why my dad was so smug... He wasn't earning enough for the holiday he kept wanting). 

Greater transparency in this matter can make the country a fairer place. My last employer was paying me about £10 an hour for the same (but less stressful) work Amazon pay their staff £7.20 perhaps if they could more easily see that they could better demand fairer pay  

mellowsun

The more personal financial information you reveal on a public forum, you put yourself more at risk of identity theft and fraud. Combining data sets across various social media can be very powerful. In today's world, I don't think it's worth the risk for the sake of a humble brag.

Myranda

As someone who does data security as their degree subject and I'd I ever fall out of education and back into the real world I thank you for pointing that out. 

However... No "security questions"  ask your current hourly rate. None which I am aware of ask your employer name (it's not secret enough). So while increasing your digital foot print and disclosure of certain information may make the lives of identity thieves easier, this information isn't it. Aside from anything else... I doubt Mellowsun is your real name... 

Information that could be used to steal your identity might be your name, date of birth, pets names, maiden names, previous address information, where you were born etc is all stuff you happily tell Facebook and then broadcast to anyone who can type your name into Google... 

So perhaps we need a better excuse for non disclosure 

mellowsun

@Myranda data triangulation. The usual id theft stuff is the obvious DoB, address etc. But if I know someone's salary details, the fact they have a final salary pension, share options and health insurance, I can triangulate that with other data from social media to know where they work and their position/job title. Knowledge of someone's name, where they work, along with fairly precise pay details, among other data, can then be used to forge a wage slip and apply for finance in their name, for example. Or contact their health insurance provider posing as them. Armed with information and using social engineering it's quite scary what you can then get providers to disclose.

dindude

Emp_Fab said:

It's not about ME knowing,  it's about your reluctance to disclose yourself! Ignoring the obvious hypocrisy for a moment,  you state that you are interested in the reasons behind people's reluctance (as am I)  yet then exhibit that same reluctance and don't explain  WHY  you feel that way.

OK, it's certainly not one of digital security, declaring a number here as @myranda says is far less an issue than most people do through other means. I've seen some on this thread post pictures of their car number plate, or details of a house they just bought/sold, etc etc. Far more risky for identify fraud IMO.

I think people do judge you for your earnings unfortunately, and all I will say is that I come at it from a point of view of what would be considered a high earner, yet my Childhood was one much closer to poverty. I've seen first hand the difference this makes to how people treat you.

I guess, in a nutshell, I thought I probably would offer it up if others did when I set the thread running, although I expected most just to say F-off, but now, actually typing a number, it feels a bit crass.

By the way, the thread has been interesting reading and nobody has been forced to declare a number, they make their own choice.

DanR

For finance props we require the following.

Name.
DOB.
3 Years Address History.
3 Years Work History.
Account Details.

No need for loads of I'd either just a valid driving licence.

Myranda

DanR said:

For finance props we require the following.

Name.
DOB.
3 Years Address History.
3 Years Work History.
Account Details.

No need for loads of I'd either just a valid driving licence.

So, approximate salary won't get me a loan? Not even if I have a pay slip (written in crayon with no address, full name or NI number)? 

mellowsun

DanR said:

For finance props we require the following.

Name.
DOB.
3 Years Address History.
3 Years Work History.
Account Details.

No need for loads of I'd either just a valid driving licence.

Name and DoB from Facebook or other social media (e.g. this forum)
Work history from LinkedIn
Address history: paid services that provide this info; Land Registry
(if changing address, new address from links posted on social media to Rightmove of house just purchased, or can be reasonably well determined from disclosure of amount paid, property type and area)
Bank account details: sort code and account number easy to obtain.

The thing is that you don't need all this info in one go. Just enough to get a third party to disclose the rest. Social engineering is the real weak point. 'Can I just confirm you have my current address?' will often elicit the person at the other end of the phone to read back the address they have on file for example.

mellowsun

Myranda said:

So, approximate salary won't get me a loan? Not even if I have a pay slip (written in crayon with no address, full name or NI number)? 

Again, you're missing the point, you get the info required via another layer of indirection. e.g. call up AXA/PPP, hi I'm from HR of Big Company, I'm calling about Person X and get them to disclose the relevant info via social engineering. Or vice versa.

mellowsun

-- duplicate post

quarky

dindude said:

I think people do judge you for your earnings unfortunately, and all I will say is that I come at it from a point of view of what would be considered a high earner

Do people really judge others on salary? If people don't share, I don't think it is possible. None of my friends know how muchI earn. My parents don't, my siblings don't, etc. Judge on car, yes, clothes, yes, house, yes. But juding on salary can't be common. If someone does actually know your salary and judges you for it, whether because they consider it high or low, that is their problem.

I think it is definitely a UK thing. Having lived in other countries, it is much less of an issue. Not everyone is comfortable with it, but it doesn't have the same stigma.

Not a criticism of a veiled attack, but do those who don't feel comfortable feel that the PM (and other positions where they serve the public) should reveal theirs?

DanR

Myranda said:

DanR said:

For finance props we require the following.

Name.
DOB.
3 Years Address History.
3 Years Work History.
Account Details.

No need for loads of I'd either just a valid driving licence.

So, approximate salary won't get me a loan? Not even if I have a pay slip (written in crayon with no address, full name or NI number)? 

Nope we don't ask that.

Only time salary comes into it is you are borderline and they need to check it's affordable.

At which point 3 months payslips and 3 months bank statements are required.

WezV

I think transparent grades within companies is a great thing. When I was in education you knew exactly what you could expect each time you moved up. Where I am now its all hush hush. I started right at the bottom, but have worked up the grades quite quickly. This makes me suspect I am probably paid 5-10k less than they would pay for my job if they had to recruit externally. Effectively I am paid less for having the specific skills and knowledge needed to do the job, which they would never find externally. but they have given me that stuff, and my CV is better than ever. Swings and roundabouts

professorben

I would say, but I worry my gf will read it.