The Disclose your Salary Thread

Gru

Please make your way over to my new post 'The bank account number, mothers maiden name and password thread'.  

digitalscream

Myranda said:

As someone who does data security as their degree subject and I'd I ever fall out of education and back into the real world I thank you for pointing that out. 

However... No "security questions"  ask your current hourly rate. None which I am aware of ask your employer name (it's not secret enough). So while increasing your digital foot print and disclosure of certain information may make the lives of identity thieves easier, this information isn't it. Aside from anything else... I doubt Mellowsun is your real name... 

Actually, you're wrong. If you're talking to your bank on the phone, they'll often ask when your salary went in and how much it was. If you know what company someone works at you've already got the first part, and the second part is easy to calculate to within a couple of quid once you know the yearly salary (and banks rarely expect somebody to know exactly how much it was).

Sambostar

Is this the 'I'm a retarded English wanker obsessed with one upmanship and class, who likes to wallow in misery ' thread?  If so make mine £2.51 and a snickers.

rossyamaha

RE the identity theft thing. My mate works in fraud at Experian. Even if you were careful about what you say where, a skilled fraudster could basically become you in around half an hour or less. 

quarky

digitalscream said:

Actually, you're wrong. If you're talking to your bank on the phone, they'll often ask when your salary went in and how much it was. If you know what company someone works at you've already got the first part, and the second part is easy to calculate to within a couple of quid once you know the yearly salary (and banks rarely expect somebody to know exactly how much it was).

I don't remember ever being asked how much my salary is, or when it goes in. In fact, I wouldn't have a clue off the top of my head about either of those. There are times I have been asked for recent transactions and details of direct debits, but even that, it is after passing the typical security questions.

If your bank is so lax in terms of security, probably time to change!

digitalscream

quarky said:

digitalscream said:

Actually, you're wrong. If you're talking to your bank on the phone, they'll often ask when your salary went in and how much it was. If you know what company someone works at you've already got the first part, and the second part is easy to calculate to within a couple of quid once you know the yearly salary (and banks rarely expect somebody to know exactly how much it was).

I don't remember ever being asked how much my salary is, or when it goes in. In fact, I wouldn't have a clue off the top of my head about either of those. There are times I have been asked for recent transactions and details of direct debits, but even that, it is after passing the typical security questions.

If your bank is so lax in terms of security, probably time to change!

It's usually "When was the last large deposit, and how much?" - I've had that from a couple of banks (Barclays and Halifax).

RaymondLin

octatonic said:

quarky said:

Oh forgot about my bonus. About £13k, but once tax is taken out, it doesn't do much more than pay for my yearly train ticket, so I don't really much of it!

US salaries can be high. There seems to be a much bigger spread there, so a lot of people on a lot of money, and a lot of very little. And of course they have to pay for health coverage.

... and you effectively pay twice.
Something we didn't realise about the US is health care costs so much but you still have a co pay.
So firstly you pay money to an insurance company.
Then when you need to use the policy you pay the deductible, which in the case of my asthma medication was about $50 an inhaler.
This was on top of my medical insurance which was something like $150 a month.

I pay £8.40 for my prescriptions here, though of course taxes are higher.
God forbid if I ever became properly ill in the US.

I went to the States a couple of years ago and did some horse riding...before I got on the horse i said to my friend, in my bag are my insurance paper work in case i get injured.  I was dead serious !

quarky

digitalscream said:

quarky said:

digitalscream said:

Actually, you're wrong. If you're talking to your bank on the phone, they'll often ask when your salary went in and how much it was. If you know what company someone works at you've already got the first part, and the second part is easy to calculate to within a couple of quid once you know the yearly salary (and banks rarely expect somebody to know exactly how much it was).

I don't remember ever being asked how much my salary is, or when it goes in. In fact, I wouldn't have a clue off the top of my head about either of those. There are times I have been asked for recent transactions and details of direct debits, but even that, it is after passing the typical security questions.

If your bank is so lax in terms of security, probably time to change!

It's usually "When was the last large deposit, and how much?" - I've had that from a couple of banks (Barclays and Halifax).

I assume that is not part of the general security questions though. Only for additional security once you have passed all the regular checks right?

Emp_Fab

Hang on a minute here....  Am I being stupid or is the identity theft argument a little hollow and disingenuous given that nobody here has ANY reference to their real names or any other private information that could link that little avatar and silly name over on the left there to a real person ?

I have no problem declaring because "Emp_Fab" is not a real person.  It is a silly name I use on this forum alone.  The real me is very careful about what information I divulge.  Without my real name, or any means by which my real name could be discovered, "Emp_Fab" could declare anything without any concerns of identity theft, because "Emp_Fab" is not an identity !!

@Myranda is right.  Employers have drilled it into staff that salary disclosure is a bad thing, though they never explain why.  It's bad only for the employer!  It's empowering for the employee.  I would like to steer this thread away from actual disclosures to the real reasons folk feel uncomfortable with disclosing, which I think is a far more interesting subject than just a list of numbers.

Why - specifically do you feel uncomfortable about disclosing ?  You must have a reason.  Saying "it's nobody's business" isn't an actual reason btw.  Bear in mind that we are all just avatars here, it carries as much meaning as Rupert the Bear declaring he's on the sex-offender's register, so why all the antipathy ?

octatonic

I'm not an employee so having a salary disclosure makes no difference to me from a level playing field perspective.
You might be anonymous but plenty of people know my real name because I have met people in real life and am friends on FB with them.

"It's nobody's business" is a completely valid reason.
There should not be an assumption to disclose.
You choose not to disclose your real name, I choose not to disclose my income.
I don't have to give a reason for this either but there are a bunch.
One of them is I don't want that level of closeness with people who refuse to reveal their actual names on forums.

My main reason though is it is a bit gauche to reveal a salary and it serves no real purpose to do so.
I'm interested in what people do with their lives, not how much money they make.

Gassage

Decent middle management salary and car allowance, plus freelance. c£25k from various rugby coaching, analysis and writing projects.

Cabicular

Emp_Fab said:

Hang on a minute here....  Am I being stupid or is the identity theft argument a little hollow and disingenuous given that nobody here has ANY reference to their real names or any other private information that could link that little avatar and silly name over on the left there to a real person ?

I have no problem declaring because "Emp_Fab" is not a real person.  It is a silly name I use on this forum alone.  The real me is very careful about what information I divulge.  Without my real name, or any means by which my real name could be discovered, "Emp_Fab" could declare anything without any concerns of identity theft, because "Emp_Fab" is not an identity !!

@Myranda is right.  Employers have drilled it into staff that salary disclosure is a bad thing, though they never explain why.  It's bad only for the employer!  It's empowering for the employee.  I would like to steer this thread away from actual disclosures to the real reasons folk feel uncomfortable with disclosing, which I think is a far more interesting subject than just a list of numbers.

Why - specifically do you feel uncomfortable about disclosing ?  You must have a reason.  Saying "it's nobody's business" isn't an actual reason btw.  Bear in mind that we are all just avatars here, it carries as much meaning as Rupert the Bear declaring he's on the sex-offender's register, so why all the antipathy ?

ok a few things

you are working off then assumption that all employers are the boogymen using secrecy to keep employment costs down and exploit workers for increased profit,  but the reality is a bit more complicated.
Start from the premis that if a Company can't keep employment costs below a certain level there isn't a business. Since employment costs are the primary cost for most service based companies then it is the primary lever between profit and loss
whilst ideally you'd like to pay people the same salary for the same job it's not how the market works
for example you might have developed a few people into their role over a period of years so have them at 50 K 
you then bid for a contract against someone like IBM who charge double the rates but pay the employees half as much
if you win, congratulation but you now need another 5 employees to do the work and the Market dictates you can only get them if you pay 60 K a peice 
if you then try and bring everyone up to 60K you do a few things
1. You have just put 20 % on your base salary cost 
2, you have artificially inflated the job market for that role meaning the next 5 you hire will cost you 70K per person
3. You have pushed up inflation
4. You've started to become unprofitable or too expensive

so you pick up the 5 at 60K and hope everyone is polite enough not to talk about it and then work towards levelling the playing field without going out of business and putting 100 people out of a job which then drives all wages down allowing IBM to pick them up at a fraction of the cost and properly exploit them for profit

Also it is easy to find the real identity of most people off here. At some point people will post links to bands. There are a few people on here that I know in real life that have popped up.

And even if it was anonymous it's maybe insensitive to post up big salaries when (for a whole variety of reasons) people are struggling

there is also sometimes a very British backlash against success and there are people who would be predjudice against someone who is well paid. It should absolutely the choice of the person on whether or not they want to paint a target on themselves like that

DLM

rossyamaha said:

a skilled fraudster could basically become you in around half an hour or less. 

The poor fucker!

Emp_Fab said:

Am I being stupid or is the identity theft argument a little hollow and disingenuous given that nobody here has ANY reference to their real names or any other private information that could link that little avatar and silly name over on the left there to a real person ?

Yes. Yes you are. A great many of us are traceable to their real lives through the information they have posted on this forum.

http://memecrunch.com/meme/97T77/don-t-dox-me-bro/image.jpg

CabbageCat

quarky said:

Do people really judge others on salary? If people don't share, I don't think it is possible. None of my friends know how muchI earn. My parents don't, my siblings don't, etc. Judge on car, yes, clothes, yes, house, yes. But juding on salary can't be common. If someone does actually know your salary and judges you for it, whether because they consider it high or low, that is their problem.

People judge people on everything that they know about a person.

Sure, it is "their problem" if you don't care what they think but then surely it's just as much "their problem" if they judge you on what car you drive as well.

CabbageCat

Emp_Fab said:

Why - specifically do you feel uncomfortable about disclosing ?  You must have a reason.  Saying "it's nobody's business" isn't an actual reason btw.  Bear in mind that we are all just avatars here, it carries as much meaning as Rupert the Bear declaring he's on the sex-offender's register, so why all the antipathy ?

I guess, mainly it's because I'm socially conditioned to find it impolite. Also, as someone mentioned before, there is power in information, even if it is only within the confines of the forum. If I'm actually pretty poor and I post about a new car I've just bought on credit then people might criticise me for being financially irresponsible. If I'm rich and I pipe up in a thread about poor people spending money they don't have then others might write my opinion off with, "It's easy for him to say, he's rich."

Emp_Fab

Thankyou @CabbageCat, an answer to the psychology behind your choice.

Personally, I'm happy for Emp_Fab to disclose his salary, because nobody here knows who I really am - which, I appreciate, is not the same for everyone here.  If I were asked to disclose under my real name, to people who know me, then I suppose my first thought would be "they're going to judge me on the basis of a number" and deep down I feel as though I could have achieved more than I have, career-wise, if I'd had a bit more motivation and less laziness, and I feel that that is reflected to a degree in the salary I make.  Therefore, it's the equivalent of declaring yourself to be one or many of; lazy, stupid, clumsy, unlucky, etc etc.  None of which are positive attributes.

On the flip side, when I see the likes of Tigger declaring (well, more 'suggesting' !) that he's on substantially more than me, my initial sentiment is a bit of jealousy because, with his salary, I could pay off my debt in no time, but also acknowledgement that he's studied hard and put the work in to get the knowledge and skills that pay that kind of money - where I haven't.  That is also a good thing, because it makes me 'own' my situation.  I'm at this point in my life, not because I'm less 'lucky' than Tigger or have had a 'less-privileged upbringing' or any other victim-mentality reasoning, but because of the decisions I've made in my life.  As ye sow, so shall ye reap - as somebody is alleged to have once said.

I'm suspicious that maybe a lot of the non-declarers here might feel the same way - that you're afraid of judgement.

digitalscream

Cabicular said:

And even if it was anonymous it's maybe insensitive to post up big salaries when (for a whole variety of reasons) people are struggling

there is also sometimes a very British backlash against success and there are people who would be predjudice against someone who is well paid. It should absolutely the choice of the person on whether or not they want to paint a target on themselves like that

These are the two reasons I wasn't specific. I'm very conscious that there are people on here who are going through hard times, but the nature of the Internet (and British people) is that the backlash against success doesn't take into account context or history; yes, I'm doing pretty bloody well for myself now (relatively-speaking, but I'm by no means rolling in it), but until nearly 2 years ago we'd had about 7 or 8 years of constant hard times and bad luck.

Before the referendum, I might've been a bit more forthcoming, but since it's been going on I've had a phenomenal amount of abuse from "friends" (now "people I used to know") who knew all of that, yet still repeatedly accused me of being a privileged middle-class tosser who's never had to struggle in my life purely on the basis that I'm educated and earn more than they do.

Don't particularly fancy facing that again.

DLM

Emp_Fab said:

 less 'lucky' than Tigger or have had a 'less-privileged upbringing'

As Mags has pointed out in the past, Tigger's background is so-not-privileged! He's an inspirational Hollywood-style success story. Britain really could be great again if more kids with his background applied themselves like he has. It totally respect and understand your decision to remain anonymous, BTW, Emp. Not easy online anymore.

Troy

My contract states that I'm not allowed to disclose my salary, though did state i can't on another thread.

Cabicular

Emp_Fab said:

Thankyou @CabbageCat, an answer to the psychology behind your choice.

Personally, I'm happy for Emp_Fab to disclose his salary, because nobody here knows who I really am - which, I appreciate, is not the same for everyone here.  If I were asked to disclose under my real name, to people who know me, then I suppose my first thought would be "they're going to judge me on the basis of a number" and deep down I feel as though I could have achieved more than I have, career-wise, if I'd had a bit more motivation and less laziness, and I feel that that is reflected to a degree in the salary I make.  Therefore, it's the equivalent of declaring yourself to be one or many of; lazy, stupid, clumsy, unlucky, etc etc.  None of which are positive attributes.

On the flip side, when I see the likes of Tigger declaring (well, more 'suggesting' !) that he's on substantially more than me, my initial sentiment is a bit of jealousy because, with his salary, I could pay off my debt in no time, but also acknowledgement that he's studied hard and put the work in to get the knowledge and skills that pay that kind of money - where I haven't.  That is also a good thing, because it makes me 'own' my situation.  I'm at this point in my life, not because I'm less 'lucky' than Tigger or have had a 'less-privileged upbringing' or any other victim-mentality reasoning, but because of the decisions I've made in my life.  As ye sow, so shall ye reap - as somebody is alleged to have once said.

I'm suspicious that maybe a lot of the non-declarers here might feel the same way - that you're afraid of judgement.

I'm pretty sure a lot of the non declarers are on the higher side rather than the lower

the thing is salary is a measure of base ability + luck + environment + attitude to risk+ desire

it doesn't reflect personality, altruism, kindness, generosity, meanness, snobbishness, love, hate or any of those things

too many people confuse the two

its just what you are paid for the thing you do.. Nothing else