FIFA and Poppygate

Handsome_Chris

fretmeister said:

I just thought of a solution.

If a player can correctly identify the dates of the World Wars without google then they can wear one.

So you like to freedom of expression but only if it meets you criteria?

Handsome_Chris

UnclePsychosis said:

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

But is doesn't. The Poppy Appeal aims to raise money for the Royal British Legion - I have no problem with this and I always contribute as it is a good cause, but I don't think it has a place at an international football match. Football, and sport in general, should be inclusive and about bringing people of all nationalities and faiths together.

OK, agreed, but I certainly don't limit my thoughts/respects to them alone.

Re football, I would also say I don't count it as a proper sport from an ethical behaviour perspective. Rugby, Cricket, Golf (outside US) etc all have the right approach. Soccer does not.

Yeah, maybe football should be more like Rugby, where there has never been institutionalised cheating or disgusting and cowardly attacks on the opposition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/11276718/Bloodgate-How-the-scandal-unfolded-when-Harlequins-met-Leinster-in-April-2009.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye-gouging_(rugby_union)#High-profile_cases

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/watch-wigans-ben-flower-punch-4422159

Christ, the England Rugby captain has served a full year's worth of bans ffs.

This "holier than thou" bollocks from Rugby fans is hilarious. Their sport is utterly filthy. Which is fine, except they all seem to get a hypocritical hard-on pretending it isn't.

I'm going to have to side with @Gassage on this one,  although I may be coming at it from the match day experience.  People can get totally hammered at the rugby, even at a derby match, and there is no issue.  If you let football fans have half a shandy bass you get this:

Gassage

UnclePsychosis said:

Gassage said:

Fretwired said:

But is doesn't. The Poppy Appeal aims to raise money for the Royal British Legion - I have no problem with this and I always contribute as it is a good cause, but I don't think it has a place at an international football match. Football, and sport in general, should be inclusive and about bringing people of all nationalities and faiths together.

OK, agreed, but I certainly don't limit my thoughts/respects to them alone.

Re football, I would also say I don't count it as a proper sport from an ethical behaviour perspective. Rugby, Cricket, Golf (outside US) etc all have the right approach. Soccer does not.

Yeah, maybe football should be more like Rugby, where there has never been institutionalised cheating or disgusting and cowardly attacks on the opposition.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/european-rugby/11276718/Bloodgate-How-the-scandal-unfolded-when-Harlequins-met-Leinster-in-April-2009.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye-gouging_(rugby_union)#High-profile_cases

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/watch-wigans-ben-flower-punch-4422159

Christ, the England Rugby captain has served a full year's worth of bans ffs.

This "holier than thou" bollocks from Rugby fans is hilarious. Their sport is utterly filthy. Which is fine, except they all seem to get a hypocritical hard-on pretending it isn't.

The big difference here is rugby, in each instance, acted.

And utterly filthy? No. The game is cleaner than ever before- 8 cameras at every game, the slightest misdemeanour gets cited. Even mistimed tackles (genuine errors) get yellow cards these days.

Hartley served a ban of 16 weeks for calling Wayne Barnes a cunt. If soccer shows some balls and did the same they'd have to cancel every game at the weekend. You call a ref a cunt or swear in anger in rugby you are off the field. That's how it should be.

Institutionalised cheating has been eradicated. It happens every moment of the match in soccer.

Soccer is pathetic in terms of its culture. Fans can't get on, can't hold their drink, can't sit together. Players abuse officals as part of their day job. They act like utter wimps on the pitch and their fitness and work ethic is piss poor.

Gassage

@UnclePsychosis ;

UnclePsychosis

Utter bollocks and you know it. 

You're a good lad normally James but you're just a troll when it comes to football and rugby. 

Eye-gouging, for fucks sake. 

Gassage

UnclePsychosis said:

Utter bollocks and you know it. 

You're a good lad normally James but you're just a troll when it comes to football and rugby. 

Eye-gouging, for fucks sake. 

Where rugby is concerned, I guess I have the advantage of doing it, not just talking about it.

Just re-read my post - it's entirely accurate.

Handsome_Chris

@UnclePsychosis , in fairness @Gassage has not denied any wrong doing in the rugby world. To me he has highlighted the action that has taken place to remedy past issues.  I believe that you are denying the fact that football has a professionals and supporters that do generate a lot of poor press for their classless behaviour.

Gassage

Handsome_Chris said:

@UnclePsychosis , in fairness @Gassage has not denied any wrong doing in the rugby world. To me he has highlighted the action that has taken place to remedy past issues.  I believe that you are denying the fact that football has a professionals and supporters that do generate a lot of poor press for their classless behaviour.

RWC 2015: 1 million attendees, 25 arrests, 3 charged.
Euro 2016  700k attendees, 800 arrests, 557 charged.

Je repose ma valise.

Handsome_Chris

Gassage said:

Handsome_Chris said:

@UnclePsychosis , in fairness @Gassage has not denied any wrong doing in the rugby world. To me he has highlighted the action that has taken place to remedy past issues.  I believe that you are denying the fact that football has a professionals and supporters that do generate a lot of poor press for their classless behaviour.

RWC 2015: 1 million attendees, 25 arrests, 3 charged.
Euro 2016  700k attendees, 800 arrests, 557 charged.

Je repose ma valise.

@Gassage , I believe the correct use of the modern vernacular is:

You're not singing anymore,
You're not singing anymore,
You're not singing ,
You're not singing ,

And so forth.  I cba

Handsome_Chris

I believe that "You're shit ah ah ah" is also accept. 

And before anyone asks, yes, I have attended an association football match.

fretmeister

Handsome_Chris said:

fretmeister said:

I just thought of a solution.

If a player can correctly identify the dates of the World Wars without google then they can wear one.

So you like to freedom of expression but only if it meets you criteria?

No. I'm just wanting to identify those who wear one for the reason of being seen to wear one rather than the more noble original reason.

Handsome_Chris

fretmeister said:

Handsome_Chris said:

fretmeister said:

I just thought of a solution.

If a player can correctly identify the dates of the World Wars without google then they can wear one.

So you like to freedom of expression but only if it meets you criteria?

No. I'm just wanting to identify those who wear one for the reason of being seen to wear one rather than the more noble original reason.

  Well surely then the people in question would only have to give the dates of The First World War, being that the poppies were first sold in Britain in 1921 to raise money for the Earl Haig Fund in support of ex-servicemen and the families of those who had died in the conflict?

Handsome_Chris

holnrew said:

The poppy is too "are boys r heros" Britain First brigade for my liking these days.

Now can we have faceplams back?

ICBM

Handsome_Chris said:

Well surely then the people in question would only have to give the dates of The First World War, being that the poppies were first sold in Britain in 1921 to raise money for the Earl Haig Fund in support of ex-servicemen and the families of those who had died in the conflict?

That's when it was started - it now applies to all servicemen from all subsequent wars. (I know you know that.)

For what it's worth I generally don't wear it, even though I always give money and buy one. I do if it's some sort of special occasion on or very close to the 11th, but not otherwise. I don't think there's any disrespect in not wearing one, or not contributing, if you don't want to.

p90fool

scrumhalf said:

 Why are poppies appearing on shirts now (or in very recent years)? Why were they not features of shirts many years ago when significant numbers of fans would have had immediate family who lost their lives in wars, and when the players themselves may have served in the forces compulsorily?

You've kind of implied the answer to your own question there. It's been absolutely necessary for memories of the realities of war for those who were conscripted into it to fade before we can get all gung-ho about the glorification of it.

It wasn't nearly so universally accepted while there were people around who'd lost all their friends and a lot of their families to Douglas Haig's egomania.

Even when I was a kid (I'm 51) there was a tangible undercurrent of bitterness attached to remembrance "celebrations", and I speak as someone from a military family.

Yes the Poppy Appeal raises money, but don't forget that it also has a symbolism which is strongly akin to victory celebrations to many outside these shores.
FIFA is an international organisation, I can empathise with their perception of the poppy as a political symbol.

scrumhalf

Thinking about the whole political angle as regards things on shirts, consider the badge worn on the England shirt.

Three lions. Now, I may not have travelled the length and breadth of the country but I'm pretty sure that lions aren't indigenous to England. We've never had some sort of special conservation role to play with regards to lions.

Surely our exposure to and adoption of the lion is colonial, and therefore political.

Fretwired

Now the RAF's in trouble ....

JezWynd

Fretwired said:

 We need to be careful what wearing a Poppy comes to symbolise as the last of the WW2 veterans die.

Very good point. We know its origin in the first world war, in which it is seen not as nationalistic but as a memoriam of all the blood that was shed.

Football, as usual, is filled with its own self importance.

earwighoney

Gassage said:

Soccer is pathetic in terms of its culture. Fans can't get on, can't hold their drink, can't sit together. Players abuse officals as part of their day job. They act like utter wimps on the pitch and their fitness and work ethic is piss poor.

These things are pretty bad, and there's no sticking up for these aspects.

But at least soccer fans don't have to watch a rugby match

blobb

At least the Poppy campaign means the general public don't have to remember what happened for the other 364 days of the year. Do they actually know what happened? Lions led by Donkeys and all that crap. Football appears to me to be the perfect place to wear a Poppy, for 90 minutes, then it can go in the bin and they can be happy that they don't  have to let maniacal ruling parties destroy their lives anymore.