FIFA and Poppygate

Heartfeltdawn

My late grandfather was a WWII veteran, Grenadier Guards. In his later years he would be out with his tin collecting around this time of year. he told me that he felt uncomfortable at times with the poppy, saying how it meant one thing for those who served and remembered and something different for those within politics. 

For once, I agree with FIFA. A minute's silence is the way forward. 

Deadman

Fretwired said:

Now the RAF's in trouble ....

That was a non-flyer from 4 years ago. The decals were only put on for a photo opportunity.

ICBM

blobb said:

At least the Poppy campaign means the general public don't have to remember what happened for the other 364 days of the year. Do they actually know what happened? Lions led by Donkeys and all that crap. Football appears to me to be the perfect place to wear a Poppy, for 90 minutes, then it can go in the bin and they can be happy that they don't  have to let maniacal ruling parties destroy their lives anymore. 

Forgetting about it on the other 364 days is exactly what allows things like Blair's decision to invade Iraq - despite the numbers who protested, there was still widespread public support for it. We need to remember more, not less.

blobb

^. Agreed, sort of my point really. Everyone is an individual and they can choose whether they want to remember stuff like this. I choose to read books and learn what really happened, I visit the sites regularly and I could almost be a battlefield guide in the Salient. It rubs me up when people get all emotional about the poppy thing, when they choose to do absolutely nothing in real terms about making sure similar situations don't occur again. I choose not to wear a poppy, if anyone comes up to me and asks why I will be more than happy to explain.

ICBM

blobb said:

^. Agreed, sort of my point really. Everyone is an individual and they can choose whether they want to remember stuff like this. I choose to read books and learn what really happened, I visit the sites regularly and I could almost be a battlefield guide in the Salient. It rubs me up when people get all emotional about the poppy thing, when they choose to do absolutely nothing in real terms about making sure similar situations don't occur again. I choose not to wear a poppy, if anyone comes up to me and asks why I will be more than happy to explain.

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted your meaning there. Yes, I completely agree.

Fretwired

Deadman said:

Fretwired said:

Now the RAF's in trouble ....

That was a non-flyer from 4 years ago. The decals were only put on for a photo opportunity.

Someone should tell Leanne Wood.

http://www.marhammattersonline.co.uk/standing-shoulder-to-shoulder-with-all-who-serve/

Handsome_Chris

Fretwired said:

Deadman said:

Fretwired said:

Now the RAF's in trouble ....

That was a non-flyer from 4 years ago. The decals were only put on for a photo opportunity.

Someone should tell Leanne Wood.

http://www.marhammattersonline.co.uk/standing-shoulder-to-shoulder-with-all-who-serve/

What a surprise . If there's any chance anyone would choose to take offence, Leanne Wood would.

blobb

ICBM said:

blobb said:

^. Agreed, sort of my point really. Everyone is an individual and they can choose whether they want to remember stuff like this. I choose to read books and learn what really happened, I visit the sites regularly and I could almost be a battlefield guide in the Salient. It rubs me up when people get all emotional about the poppy thing, when they choose to do absolutely nothing in real terms about making sure similar situations don't occur again. I choose not to wear a poppy, if anyone comes up to me and asks why I will be more than happy to explain.

Ah sorry, I misinterpreted your meaning there. Yes, I completely agree.

If, instead of making a 'donation' to wear a Poppy, all those people who want to show they are remembering the Fallen (and of course, those that didn't fall) had to read about how these things get started I'm sure we wouldn't be wasting our time arguing about Brexit and all that other stage managed political stuff. In a way, I agree with these football chiefs about it being a political statement. That's what it has become - a symbol of political brainwashing far removed from it's original meaning. Problem is, people don't see it that way. They jump up and down about how insensitive it is to dismiss the act of remembering huge unforgivable tragedy. They do say Brits do Irony better than any other nation. I concur.

Apology accepted, glad there is at least one other who can see it that way. 

UnclePsychosis

It would be nice if the SFA put half as much energy into improving the game in Scotland as they do into trying to get a flower stitched into the shirts for a single game.

littlegreenman

I do wear a poppy each year, but only in the week leading up to Remembrance Sunday, partly because both my Grandfathers served in WWII.

There's a bloke I work with who was a RAF logistics Officer who ended up serving in Basrah, saw some serious shit and still gets help from the British Legion support groups. Reckons he couldn't have re-integrated into civvy life without it, and he's a proper stand up nice guy. There's times though when you know he's having a bad day, but they've helped him to see it and take a time out or ask for a bit of support. Because of that, he does, and we all jug in, take the piss, or go out for a piss-up, which seems to do the trick.  Probably the most helpful and productive colleague I have.

It's not about politics, it's about real people.

UnclePsychosis

As seen on twitter and paraphrased clunkily:

"people fought and died so that people like me could admit to feeling slightly uncomfortable that society has made it mandatory for certain people to wear a poppy"

p90fool

UnclePsychosis said:

As seen on twitter and paraphrased clunkily:

"people fought and died so that people like me could admit to feeling slightly uncomfortable that society has made it mandatory for certain people to wear a poppy"

Most people fought and died for absolutely fuck all. 60,000 in one day, in one battle, with absolutely zero result?
That's not "uncomfortable", it's a fucking outrage, and plenty of veterans were outraged when the man responsible for it received an earldom, a country estate and the equivalent of nine million quid as a golden handshake in 1919.

As I said, I'm from a military family and acknowledge the benefits of the poppy appeal, but let's not forget that it's part of the "bread and circuses" nationalist distraction which masks the pointless deaths of millions of young men who didn't understand it was all just a royal family feud.

Gassage

What is a surprise to me is that the players aren't simply getting sleeves of poppies tattoed..

Neil

FIFA double standards.

From the BBC website...

Fifa has been accused of double standards after it emerged Republic of Ireland players wore a political symbol on their shirts in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

Damian Collins MP, chairman of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said he had called on Fifa to "clarify the issue".

The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths.

"That appears to be an absolutely classic example of leniency being shown to other countries," Collins said.

fields5069

Gassage said:

What is a surprise to me is that the players aren't simply getting sleeves of poppies tattoed..

With some words of wisdom, in a foreign language they can't read.

Fretwired

fields5069 said:

Gassage said:

What is a surprise to me is that the players aren't simply getting sleeves of poppies tattoed..

With some words of wisdom, in a foreign language they can't read.

More likely "Two world wars, one world cup'  - misspelled. English footballers don't seem to be the brightest people you'll ever meet. 

Fretwired

Neil said:

FIFA double standards.

From the BBC website...

Fifa has been accused of double standards after it emerged Republic of Ireland players wore a political symbol on their shirts in a friendly against Switzerland on 25 March to mark the centenary of the Easter Rising.

Damian Collins MP, chairman of the Commons' Culture, Media and Sport select committee, said he had called on Fifa to "clarify the issue".

The Easter Rising was an Irish rebellion against British rule, which lasted from 24 to 29 April 1916 and resulted in 485 deaths.

"That appears to be an absolutely classic example of leniency being shown to other countries," Collins said.

Nothing to do with Fifa as it was a friendly and not a competitive match. Those are the rules apparently ...

Jalapeno

MattBanshee said:

ICBM said:

The poppy is not a political or religious symbol.

It's particularly appropriate in an England-Scotland match too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_F.C._and_World_War_I

There were some English teams who also signed up en masse, or close to it, as well I think.

The poppy is 100% political. I refuse to wear one for as long as they lump the murderous Blairite warmongering illegal invaders in with the people who fought to DEFEND the borders of this country (last seen in the Falklands, never since).

What about the poor sods who had to go to former Yugoslavia to be target practice ?

JayGee

Mmmm...

I remember when the poppy used to be a non-political symbol before successive waves of politicians and media hacks not only politicised but outright weaponised remembrance and everything around it in a wave of ill considered, ill mannered, largely synthetic hysteria over who was or wasn't wearing a poppy, where and when they were or weren't wearing it, what people were wearing to formal acts, whether they bowed (and if so how far) when laying wreaths, and where they went afterwards.

And now this, which in the wake of the above looks to my somewhat jaded and cynical eye like it has an awful lot of opportunist grandstanding growing up around it...

Fretwired

The Poppy wasn't originally political. It was about remembering the dead in what was thought to be the 'war to end wars' .. in fact the government of the day didn't want it introduced. It was setup by servicemen to remember those who lost their lives. It has since become political as it was used by politicians to remember the dead in WW2 and in other wars and conflicts - given the multi-cultural nature of the UK this causes tension. There will be the usual poppy burning from radical Muslims and the usual ranting from the far right. No wonder FIFA doesn't support it.